US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war - PART 2

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Mirai

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rambo919 said:
Yes, people fighting against the oppression of a corrupt government that was making them non-citizens is just bad manners.
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We've gone over this. Moscow instigated these people to fight. There is always a seperatist rebellion in every country which wants to get closer to the West.

This however did not justify open war. Moscow is the imperialist here.
 
rambo919

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Mirai said:
We've gone over this. Moscow instigated these people to fight. There is always a seperatist rebellion in every country which wants to get closer to the West.

This however did not justify open war. Moscow is the imperialist here.
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Whether it was instigated or not. The people displayed their desires democratically and were stomped on.

You are defending paternalistic autocracy.... not me.
 
The Trutherizer

The Trutherizer

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Tun@ said:
View attachment 1258514

Proposed in December


I guess they're too busy writing up sanctions to bother maybe pulling this apart & seeing what could be done.
I suspect that's not part of the plan till some later date.
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It would essentially take both the US and Russia out of the picture. Everywhere. Except where either subjectively determine that the actions of the other is undermining their security. Sure it fully protects both Russia and the US from each other. But it would prevent US participation in ANY military actions ANYWHERE, which may not even involve the Russian Federation. The US would not be able to engage thus even to protect their allies from OTHER nations. Such as, for example, Russia's allies, among them China.

If China then determines to annexe Taiwan - It wouldn't even matter one way or the other if Russia is involved or not - The US would not be able to form part of a defence of their ally nation. Or any other ally nation. NATO, UN or otherwise.

All that this would leave the US is the right to defend itself from invasion.


If this is a real draft, then I say they are trying to pull a fast one. I doubt the US would ever sign that.
It's practically insulting.
 
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Mirai

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rambo919 said:
Whether it was instigated or not. The people displayed their desires democratically and were stomped on.
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It matters if a foreign power instigates people to fight their government.

Due process of law should be followed. People feel their rights are trampled they need to follow procedures.

War is not the answer.
 
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Pak Fa Fui

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Mirai said:
We've gone over this. Moscow instigated these people to fight. There is always a seperatist rebellion in every country which wants to get closer to the West.

This however did not justify open war. Moscow is the imperialist here.
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Wrong, Zelensky forced them to fight.
 
Polymathic

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Dan Carlin mentions that there's a real threat of Russia using a small tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine to show the West he's serious and get them to back off.

Turned on BBC World now and they are talking about the possibility of the same thing.

We just have to wait and see
 
rambo919

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Mirai said:
It matters if a foreign power instigates people to fight their government.

Due process of law should be followed. People feel their rights are trampled they need to follow procedures.

War is not the answer.
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Yes, I too condemn the public executions, torture and rapes in the Donbass by the Ukrainian government.

If only there was a way to make it stop.... oh, there was.
 
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Pak Fa Fui

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Norrad said:
Does anyone know what the actual rules are regarding South African citizens heading over to Ukraine to go and fight? Our local WhatsApp group has three laaitjies soliciting donations to get themselves over there.
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Illegal, just like it was for ISIS fighters.
 
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ToxicBunny

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daveza said:
Are they still mercenaries if they don't get paid ?
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I think thats were it probably gets very grey, but if you aren't being paid do you have the funds to defend yourself against the government when it brings those charges to bear?
 
Wrath of Khan

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Mirai said:
So far the vast majority of Ukrainians is opposing the Russian attack.

You are poisoning the well.

Russia and her people are OK with a very patriarchal system. There is some democracy but Kremlin knows best.

Ukraine wants their own system, inspired more on the West.

That's all there is to it here.

NATO is not a security threat to Moscow. In fact NATO is a source of stability because Ukrainian forces would be under central command. They'd have no access to nukes.

Only thing is that Russia would not be able to intimidate them as much as they have.
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Putin says otherwise.. he's pissed off with NATO
 
Cray

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Polymathic said:

Dan Carlin mentions that there's a real threat of Russia using a small tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine to show the West he's serious and get them to back off.
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Jesus, if he thinks the world is against him now...
 
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Mirai

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rambo919 said:
Yes, I too condemn the public executions, torture and rapes in the Donbass by the Ukrainian government.

If only there was a way to make it stop.... oh, there was.
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Yeah, Russians withdraw with immediate effect. At best they leave forces in the Donbas.
 
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