US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

[Dave]

Good thing civilian airlines are staying away from Ukraine before some Ukrainian have another "accident"

1) I don't think you understand the capabilities of the Stinger.

2) it's Russia that has the experience of downing civilian airliners in that area.

 

[Mirai]

No, the Ukraine won't win.

It depends on what sort of regime the Russians hope to install and what sort of support it will have. I find it hard to believe that in the west of the country, at least, it will have too much popular support, not after this, and past historic events such as the Holodomor.

It may be a very bloody occupation with guerilla war. It may also be that most will fall in line. They hope for the latter. Ukraine would be very beneficial to a rising Russia.

People need to remember that winning a war is easy. Occupation is hard, if the population does not like you and the West is willing to arm and fund them.

 

[rambo919]

To be fair, UPA were more anti-Polish than anti-anyone else. When the Soviets occupied them they turned their attention on the Soviets. Ukrainians did co-operate with Hitler but not because they loved the ideology but because they had a common enemy or common enemies. On the one side many disliked Poland, on the other side they were oppressed by the Soviets. The current lot are not followers of Hitler or some sort of Germany supporters but are ultra nationalists with an authoritarian bend. They could co-operate with anyone who has a common enemy with them. But they are a minority of Ukrainians.

Nazi only means Nationalist Socialist and technically there is nothing excluding Jews from being Nazi's.

This thing of anti-Jew = Nazi is merely decades long propaganda.

 

[Wut]

Were there many who refused? Could they also leave any time they wanted to? You know sometimes conscription is implicit.



That's called conscription. Russia has done it, USA has done it, many others have done it. We had it in SA under SADF.

You're now arguing against something which is commonly done everywhere. Yes there are professional armies and territorial defense forces (national guard) but if there is an all out war, then able bodied men are usually called up to fight. Many of these men already have had military training.

That's why the Russians should not have invaded.

Being conscripted would mean receiving a uniform and being seen as proper military combatants. These people are simply being handed guns and told to go defend their country. They might be seen as resistance fighters and that opens them up to the possibility of simply facing a firing squad when captured. It's the same with mercenaries in that the rules of war don't really apply to them as they aren't unarmed civilians or official military combatants.

Look at the 'Muricans in Afghanistan/Iraq or the Israelis. You pick up a weapon in a conflict and you are allowed to be targeted and taken out without any legal protection. Snipers taking out kids who picked up weapons as an example.

 

[rambo919]

It depends on what sort of regime the Russians hope to install and what sort of support it will have. I find it hard that in the west of the country, at least, it will have too much popular support, not after this, and past historic events such as the Holodomor.

It may be a very bloody occupation with guerilla war. It may also be that most will fall in line. They hope for the latter. Ukraine would be very beneficial to a rising Russia.

People need to remember that winning a war is easy. Occupation is hard, if the population does not like you and the West is willing to arm and fund them.

I don't think they really plan on occupying anything.... they are doing a show of strength, destroying opposition and collecting evidence. What happens after the fighting will be more Machiavelli than Sun Tsu.... they might even completely leave after securing their western flank with a buffer zone if they cannot force the entire country to be a buffer zone.

The Russians are not Americans.

 

[Mirai]

Nazi only means Nationalist Socialist and technically there is nothing excluding Jews from being Nazi's.

This thing of anti-Jew = Nazi is merely decades long propaganda.

NSDAP was anti-Jewish. They hated Jews more than they hated everyone else, including blacks. Hitler believed that Jews could not create their own nation. On the other hand the NSDAP thought that black people could create nations, just not as functional as the "best" Aryans.

Only NSDAP can be called Nazi. Others you could say quasi Nazi or neo Nazi but it's a confusing name.

 

[Mirai]

I don't think they really plan on occupying anything.... they are doing a show of strength, destroying opposition and collecting evidence. What happens after the fighting will be more Machiavelli than Sun Tsu.... they might even completely leave after securing their western flank with a buffer zone if they cannot force the entire country to be a buffer zone.

The Russians are not Americans.

Russia has a long history of occupation my friend. It's the Americans who are not occupiers. When did Russian troops leave Eastern Europe? Christmas Day in 1991.

These guys read from the same book. They are the standard bearers for the USSR. They were trained with Soviet tactics.

Contrast this to the eastern Nato members inviting permanent American forces in. It took many years.

 

[rambo919]

NSDAP was anti-Jewish. They hated Jews more than they hated everyone else, including blacks. Hitler believed that Jews could not create their own nation. On the other hand the NSDAP thought that black people could create nations, just not as functional as the "best" Aryans.

Only NSDAP can be called Nazi. Others you could say quasi Nazi or neo Nazi but it's a confusing name.

What nationalistic European movement has not hated Jews? Nothing to do with their race it's their non-homogeneous presence that causes the problems. The Jews are often hated merely because they are permanent residents that don't completely integrate. Same thing with the gypsies.

You get Jewish Nazi's in Israel they just don't call themselves Nazi's.... in this case they hate Arabs.

 

[rambo919]

Russia has a long history of occupation my friend. It's the Americans who are not occupiers. When did Russian troops leave Eastern Europe? Christmas Day in 1991.

These guys read from the same book. They are the standard bearers for the USSR. They were trained with Soviet tactics.

That only matters if someone intends to revive the USSR.... which I am not convinced of yet.

You cannot directly compare Communism with Russianism.

I don't think the new Russian Empire if it is birthed will be quite like the two before.

 

[Wut]

Russia has a long history of occupation my friend. It's the Americans who are not occupiers. When did Russian troops leave Eastern Europe? Christmas Day in 1991.

These guys read from the same book. They are the standard bearers for the USSR. They were trained with Soviet tactics.

Contrast this to the eastern Nato members inviting permanent American forces in. It took many years.

When did 'Murican troops leave Japan?

 

[Mirai]

What nationalistic European movement has not hated Jews? Nothing to do with their race it's their non-homogeneous presence that causes the problems. The Jews are often hated merely because they are permanent residents that don't completely integrate. Same thing with the gypsies.

You get Jewish Nazi's in Israel they just don't call themselves Nazi's.... in this case they hate Arabs.

OK I was speaking about the NSDAP. You need to argue with someone else.

Just because you call someone a NAZI does not mean they follow NSDAP principles.

 

[Mirai]

When did 'Murican troops leave Japan?

I understand that they are welcome there. Japan could ask them officially to leave at any time.

But speaking to my Japanese friends, they say they welcome them there because they are afraid of China and North Korea.

Essentially US are the effective Japanese military. They defend Japan and assure her security.

Americans could leave at any time if asked by the Japanese.

 

[rambo919]

OK I was speaking about the NSDAP. You need to argue with someone else.

Just because you call someone a NAZI does not mean they follow NSDAP principles.

You have the wrong end of the stick..... Nazi includes any National Socialist group that has a pet group of people that it believes needs to be eradicated.

Whether NSDAP falls into this catagory or not is not the question, as they do.

The point is it is a myth that you need to hate Jews to be a Nazi.

 

[Mirai]

These are their tactics.

Being conscripted would mean receiving a uniform and being seen as proper military combatants. These people are simply being handed guns and told to go defend their country. They might be seen as resistance fighters and that opens them up to the possibility of simply facing a firing squad when captured. It's the same with mercenaries in that the rules of war don't really apply to them as they aren't unarmed civilians or official military combatants.

Look at the 'Muricans in Afghanistan/Iraq or the Israelis. You pick up a weapon in a conflict and you are allowed to be targeted and taken out without any legal protection. Snipers taking out kids who picked up weapons as an example.

They don't have enough uniforms for them. So they can use armbands or anything like that.

Even the Nazis recognised the 1944 Warsaw uprising Poles, guys who only had red/white armbands and shot at Germans as POWs.

 

[daveza]

So the more Russian soldiers that go home in plastic bags, the sooner the Russian people will revolt and this will all end.

Maybe Putin ends up like Mussolini.

Hopefully more like Ceaușescu.

 

[Mirai]

You have the wrong end of the stick..... Nazi includes any National Socialist group that has a pet group of people that it believes needs to be eradicated.

Whether NSDAP falls into this catagory or not is not the question, as they do.

The point is it is a myth that you need to hate Jews to be a Nazi.

We have to see what policies each group follows. You can't just say "national" and "socialist". That's why this term is stupid. It only applies to the NSDAP which had specific policies. I am not going to talk about this anymore. It's also off topic.

 

[Jola]

Hopefully more like Ceaușescu.

Google what happened to Mussolini

 

[greg0205]

Russia to partially restrict Facebook, accusing it of human rights violations​

Russia to partially restrict Facebook, accusing it of human rights violations | Business Insider

Russia's communications regulator is cutting off Facebook after it says the network restricted four Russian media outlets.

www.businessinsider.co.za

Now this is s**t funny stuff right here..... and some people may have thought that Putin has no sense of humor....

I'll be here, sipping my coffee, waiting on the rest of y'all, "mUh FrEe SpEeCh!", "cAnCeL cUlTuRe!' folks to take issue with your Daddy Vladdy literally censoring speech.

 

[Mystic Twilight]

I understand that they are welcome there. Japan could ask them officially to leave at any time.

But speaking to my Japanese friends, they say they welcome them there because they are afraid of China and North Korea.

Essentially US are the effective Japanese military. They defend Japan and assure her security.

Americans could leave at any time if asked by the Japanese.

You need to maintain context, that sentiment is only in recent times. The usa didn't leave over 70 years ago after 1945, you can't say if eastern europeans in 70 years time might share the same sentiment and welcome russian occupation or reject it. For a more recent contextual example, the usa have been occupying afghanistan (rightly or wrongly) for the past 20 odd years, and to some extent the local afghans welcomed it, most supported by the younger generation, especially the women who were given better treatment and equal rights.

 

[Wut]

I understand that they are welcome there. Japan could ask them officially to leave at any time.

But speaking to my Japanese friends, they say they welcome them there because they are afraid of China and North Korea.

Essentially US are the effective Japanese military. They defend Japan and assure her security.

Americans could leave at any time if asked by the Japanese.

I lived in Japan for just over two years and they are tolerated, but definitely not welcome. The general sentiment of the average Japanese person at the time was that they would be safer if the yanks left.

China and North Korea only started becoming threats rather recently and the yanks have been there since WW2.