US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

[chemfis]

Yes and did they achieve peace. They did. There was war in the centre of Europe and Europeans wanted Serbia to settle this amicably. They didn't.

You understand context bud? So how many civilians died there?
Compare to Chechnya.

And how many died there.

And tell me which country would you prefer to live in? Chechnya or Serbia which is due to join EU and wants to join NATO.

Yes I'm sure this hurt Serb pride. But war is not the answer in modern Europe.

You are not rational. You prefer a country like Russia which killed many more people in Chechnya to NATO which has a much much better record. You need to be consistent. If NATO is bad for Serbia, Russia is 100x worse for Chechnya.

Serbia does not want to join Nato.

 

[Mirai]

So China supports Ukrainian independence? Cool.

It also supports human rights and constantly tells the rest of the world it does.

China supports stability. It wants people to stop fighting and buy their stuff. Especially round eyes.

 

[rambo919]

China supports stability. It wants people to stop fighting and buy their stuff. Especially round eyes.

Is there a point to all the constant accusations of racism?

 

[Mirai]

Serbia does not want to join Nato.

Although current Serbian priorities do not include NATO membership, the Alliance has offered Serbia an invitation to enter the intensified dialogue programme whenever the country is ready.[44] On 1 October 2008, Serbian Defence Minister Dragan Šutanovac signed the Information Exchange Agreement with the NATO, one of the prerequisites for fuller membership in the Partnership for Peace programme.[45]

In 2015 Serbia implemented its first Individual Partnership Action Plan with NATO,[46] regularly participates in its military maneuvers and hosted a joint civil protection exercise with NATO in 2018.[47][48]

 

[Kosmik]

The existing status quo, as per the Budapest Memorandum. (signed by Russia)

1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics.
4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

Putin's stance: That it provides no true guarantee of safety due to Russia's coercive power.

Pathetic.

And the talks prior to conflict around Nato? Those accords pre date that, it was not a perceived concern or threat at the time, and there were discussions to alter that status quo before any conflict took place.

This does exclude the whole Civil War and separatist aspects though.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

People need to stop living in fantasy Hollywood land thinking Chinese owe anything to Russia and love them

you won't find a single person here who thinks that, the fantasy is in your head in fact

China is opportunistic, they don't love anyone, this current shytshow might be the thing that gives them an excuse, or the audacity, to grab Taiwan

not because they "love Russia", but because they know an opportunity when they see one, and a military alliance with Russia is an amazing opportunity if your goal is to retake Taiwan ... unless of course you believe they have no such desires ...

 

[Mirai]

Is there a point to all the constant accusations of racism?

It's to tell you that China has no special love for anyone in particular and has its own way.

 

[Polymathic]

Chelsea could go BUST if owner Roman Abramovich is hit with sanctions

Premier League giants Chelsea could go bust if sanctions were imposed on owner Roman Abramovich and he claimed money owed to him, it was claimed tonight.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mirai]

you won't find a single person here who thinks that, the fantasy is in your head in fact

China is opportunistic, they don't love anyone, this current shytshow might be the thing that gives them an excuse, or the audacity, to grab Taiwan

not because they "love Russia", but because they know an opportunity when they see one, and a military alliance with Russia is an amazing opportunity if your goal is to retake Taiwan ... unless of course you believe they have no such desires ...

That is just one scenario but unlikely because China does not need this. China has such close economic and cultural ties with Taiwan it doesn't need Russia.

China always plays the long game.

You are thinking in little bullet points posted by some Fox news guys for you. China scaremongering has been around a long time.

Besides this conflict is not significant. Only if America was involved in hot war with Russia would such a situation present itself.

 

[rambo919]

It's to tell you that China has no special love for anyone in particular and has its own way.

And it is in it's interests to have Russia take over Europe if it decided to. China is does not care who runs Europe it just wants the market.... on the other hand if Russia could bash Europe around for a bit and force them to reverse their bans on Chinese goods....

 

[Mirai]

And it is in it's interests to have Russia take over Europe if it decided to. China is does not care who runs Europe it just wants the market.... on the other hand if Russia could bash Europe around for a bit and force them to reverse their bans on Chinese goods....

No. China wants there to be peace and prosperity so lazy people buy its products. Undemocratic and broken societies which have to recover from war buy fewer phones, tablets and other junk. In return China wants value in European currencies. If Europe is destroyed or unstable these are less valuable.

You must stop playing video games.

 

[Fulcrum29]

The Kremlin has claimed that Russian president Vladimir Putin ordered a halt to its offensive in Ukraine on Friday, expecting negotiations with Volodymyr Zelenskiy, but told them to continue when that did not happen.

A government spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov said the operation was resumed on Saturday afternoon after the Ukrainian leadership refused to negotiate, according to Reuters.

Source: The Guardian

Odd, neh, Ukraine said they would be willing to talk. I don't trust the Russians, using their peacekeeping mandate as a precursor to launch a large-scale attack on Ukraine sovereignty showed their hand.

 

[rambo919]

No. China wants there to be peace and prosperity so lazy people buy its products. Undemocratic and broken societies which have to recover from war buy fewer phones, tablets and other junk.

You must stop playing video games.

That is what murica wants..... China is not murica.

 

[Mirai]

That is what murica wants..... China is not murica.

China wants to sell stuff and get European wealth and gold in return.

I don't know what 'Murica is.

 

[rambo919]

China wants to sell stuff and get European wealth and gold in return.

I don't know what 'Murica is.

Murica = USA, Bush coined it and I find it funny. Russia does the fighting and China does the selling, Europe is systematically banning Chinese companies, the more it does it the less China has to loose in terms of profits.

Africa and other third world territories however is the China growth market.... not First World countries.

 

[The Trutherizer]

And the talks prior to conflict around Nato? Those accords pre date that, it was not a perceived concern or threat at the time, and there were discussions to alter that status quo before any conflict took place.

This does exclude the whole Civil War and separatist aspects though.

Convenient, disingenuous. Putin has been referencing everything back to the annexation of Crimea by Catherine the Great in his "justifications" for his actions over the last decade or so. Most of his rhetoric is disqualified if we're setting the bar where you are suggesting. Essentially that's saying that up to the point where Putin decided Ukraine should be within Russia's sphere of influence the Budapest memorandum held, but since then it's just not on. That argument, that Ukraine should be within Russian influence, and not that of the EU and NATO, is after all where this whole thing started last decade. So... what..? Russia's stance, as per the Budapest agreement, was that Ukraine should be free of coercive influence, as long as it falls under Russian coercive influence? And that even if the impetus for Ukraine joining NATO comes from Ukraine, not NATO, then NATO is to blame for Russia now invading Ukraine. And in the next breath Putin can blithely say that he can't force the rebels in the East to not want to be part of Russia.

Hmm... I can see why the world is questioning Russia's ability to abide by agreements, or be sane. To be honest.

 

[rambo919]

Source: The Guardian

Odd, neh, Ukraine said they would be willing to talk. I don't trust the Russians, using their peacekeeping mandate as a precursor to launch a large-scale attack on Ukraine sovereignty showed their hand.

Is it so absurd that both Putin and Zelenskiy are equally full of BS?

 

[Pak Fa Fui]

The Russian army still uses Ladas and those vans that the A team used in the 80s, so cute.

 

[Kosmik]

Convenient, disingenuous. Putin has been referencing everything back to the annexation of Crimea by Catherine the Great in his "justifications" for his actions over the last decade or so. Most of his rhetoric is disqualified if we're setting the bar where you are suggesting. Essentially that's saying that up to the point where Putin decided Ukraine should be within Russia's sphere of influence the Budapest memorandum held, but since then it's just not on. That argument, that Ukraine should be within Russian influence, and not that of the EU and NATO, is after all where this whole thing started last decade. So... what..? Russia's stance, as per the Budapest agreement, was that Ukraine should be free of coercive influence, as long as it falls under Russian coercive influence? And that even if the impetus for Ukraine joining NATO comes from Ukraine, not NATO, then NATO is to blame for Russia now invading Ukraine.

Hmm... I can see why the world is questioning Russia's ability to abide by agreements, or be sane. To be honest.

Not talking about Crimea here or do you think it was acceptable for a country to shell it's own citizens?

 

[The_Mowgs]

Is it so absurd that both Putin and Zelenskiy are equally full of BS?

No, but we all know who the biggest piece of sht is