US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

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yebocan

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It is possible Putin understimated them and sent worse tanks at the them.
he was doing his military operation on a tight budget.......- clearly the planning for this misadventure was not done properly...thinking its Georgia or Crimea....quick in, quick out...- now not only is his military being shown up as underwhelming and ill supported...but he has galvanized the EU, got Germany to seriously invest in her army...being slapped around with round after round of economic sanctions...-- they will be looking for a way out of this shitfest, a face saving one.
 

TEXTILE GUY

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I suspect a lot of propaganda and misinformation being spread by both sides.

Looks so far if Ukraine is not doing so bad in a war we all suspected would be one sided.
Sure - plenty bullsh it going on, but you are on this thread - we know what the truth is :whistling::) Cant hoodwink mybb members.

But yeah, who knows what really happening right now?
 

IndigoIdentity

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Who, and where, are these nationalists in Ukraine?
Quoting from your post: "We are carrying out a special military operation against nationalists to protect the people of Donbass"

Is there any credence to the claim, anything at all that is credible?

Hmm, before Euromaidan and the revolution they had a pro-Russia government in place, after this they had a pro-EU government in place.

Given the makeup of the Ukrainian population, I would certainly say that not everyone was happy with this, the South Eastern areas of Ukraine are largely Russian or Ukrainian-Russian.

The discontent with the overthrow of Yanucovych (in my opinion) had lead in part to the annexation of Crimea which lead to the protests and the separatist groups that formed in Donetsk and Luhansk (Donbass) which is where Yanukovych was from, his support base. I feel like these areas were likely wanting to follow in the same route as Crimea or atleast have an opportunity to have their own say in the way that things progressed. This lead to the war in Donbass as we have seen it since 2014.

During the start of this war, there formed such volunteer groups such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

The Gaurdian did an article in 2014 which adds more context to their activities and provides one members account of involvement. It also mentions that they had been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine's war with pro-Russia separatists: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

They are cited by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights as being connected to war crimes such as mass looting, unlawful detention, torture, rape and other forms of sexual violence which you can read about in the in their reports:

www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf
www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

There are numerous articles that cite members of this group having participated in the fighting against the Russian separatists of the Donbass region right up till the invasion of Ukraine by Russia as we see it today.

How was that war actually going though?

Citing the most recently available report by the UN on civillian casualties of the war and their stats from 2018-2021:

1645985129374.png
Any idea which side of the conflict has been suffering the most civilian casualties? What types of things have caused these deaths?

From 1 January to 31 December 2021, OHCHR recorded 44 civilian casualties caused by active hostilities (shelling, SALW fire and UAV strikes): seven killed (six men and one woman) and 37 injured (26 men, nine women, one boy and one girl), a 37.1 per cent decrease compared with 2020 (eight killed and 62 injured).

You can read more about it in the UN report here:


Are the people of Donbass under threat by nationalist groups? I can't say for sure but I do know that Azov is not the only group that exists in Ukraine with an affinity towards nationalism. See my previous post and personal experience having talked with someone who had lived in the region since childhood:


I will cite the above wikipedia article:

In 2018, a provision in an appropriations bill passed by the U.S. Congress blocked military aid to Azov on the grounds of its white supremacist ideology; in 2015, a similar ban on aid to the group was overturned by the Congress.

Are they being supported by the West? I am not sure, but people have been asking questions about this too:


Is there even a sliver of credence to the claim, just a tiny one?

Will drop some pictures from the peaceful Euromaidan protests for illustration:

#totallynotnationalistsunlessrussiannationlists

1645992924790.png

1645993129844.png
1645993329569.png
1645993365128.png
 

Zukat

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Fortunately as a young out of high school boy in the 80's i experienced first hand what media manipulation is via the good old BBC right here in SA. Guarding and escorting them during a peaceful protest in which no violence came from any side . Only to later receive an urgent call from my parents asking if i'm ok which suprised me. The footage they've put out to world was edited with different footage from other violent protests inbetween making it seem that we where firing at protesters. As a 18yr old politics and news wasn't on my priority list ( like the majority of 18yr olds ) but this incident made me skeptical about MSM from such a young age.

This is standard for any news broadcasting- make it as sensational as possible. Thats why we've seen football fans coming to SA with bulletproof vests in 2010.
 

rambo919

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Sure - plenty bullsh it going on, but you are on this thread - we know what the truth is :whistling::) Cant hoodwink mybb members.

But yeah, who knows what really happening right now?
I fail to see how it's all that complicated. Here is my take:

  • Ukraine is under pressure from Russia in general
  • The pressure breaks Ukraine and it tries to simultaneously kiss Russia's feet and moon it.
  • This causes racial fractures in the the country to break apart resulting in civil war as the Russian parts tries to leave the Slav part.
  • The fighting becomes savage with both sides committing atrocities but the Donbass getting the worst of it.
  • Russia enters the Donbass to stop the violence with maybe maybe not plans to invade Ukraine proper to permanently stop the fighting one way or another
  • The violence in the Donbass spills over into Ukraine proper and the world looses it's collective mind.
 

Brontosaurus

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If you dont get it by now.
You never will.
The claims I made was against the original claims by others...........
THEY need to post proof after which i can post my rebuttals.
Get it now Jean claude van domme ?

There's nothing to get.

You asserted a claim something was fake, literally saying you have proof it is...

... So provide the proof.

You didn't say that you believe they're fake due to lack of evidence on the contrary, you said they were proven (this being the operative word here) that they're fake.

You made a claim, now prove it.

Or you can continue to argue like a petulant child.
 

Defonotaltaccount

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b8468b1ada2d28036ef8ff33a1bbe78bdc8f5f3453e2b4f55dc0a6ac9bfb8f7d_1.jpg
 

Defonotaltaccount

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There's nothing to get.

You asserted a claim something was fake, literally saying you have proof it is...

... So provide the proof.

You didn't say that you believe they're fake due to lack of evidence on the contrary, you said they were proven (this being the operative word here) that they're fake.

You made a claim, now prove it.

Or you can continue to argue like a petulant child.
nah i dont argue with simpletons, google it.
You have 20-25% of what i said proven correct.
 

DJ Yoda

Active Member
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Messages
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Quoting from your post: "We are carrying out a special military operation against nationalists to protect the people of Donbass"

Is there any credence to the claim, anything at all that is credible?

Hmm, before Euromaidan and the revolution they had a pro-Russia government in place, after this they had a pro-EU government in place.

Given the makeup of the Ukrainian population, I would certainly say that not everyone was happy with this, the South Eastern areas of Ukraine are largely Russian or Ukrainian-Russian.

The discontent with the overthrow of Yanucovych (in my opinion) had lead in part to the annexation of Crimea which lead to the protests and the separatist groups that formed in Donetsk and Luhansk (Donbass) which is where Yanukovych was from, his support base. I feel like these areas were likely wanting to follow in the same route as Crimea or atleast have an opportunity to have their own say in the way that things progressed. This lead to the war in Donbass as we have seen it since 2014.

During the start of this war, there formed such volunteer groups such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

The Gaurdian did an article in 2014 which adds more context to their activities and provides one members account of involvement. It also mentions that they had been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine's war with pro-Russia separatists: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

They are cited by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights as being connected to war crimes such as mass looting, unlawful detention, torture, rape and other forms of sexual violence which you can read about in the in their reports:

www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf
www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

There are numerous articles that cite members of this group having participated in the fighting against the Russian separatists of the Donbass region right up till the invasion of Ukraine by Russia as we see it today.

How was that war actually going though?

Citing the most recently available report by the UN on civillian casualties of the war and their stats from 2018-2021:

View attachment 1255968
Any idea which side of the conflict has been suffering the most civilian casualties? What types of things have caused these deaths?

From 1 January to 31 December 2021, OHCHR recorded 44 civilian casualties caused by active hostilities (shelling, SALW fire and UAV strikes): seven killed (six men and one woman) and 37 injured (26 men, nine women, one boy and one girl), a 37.1 per cent decrease compared with 2020 (eight killed and 62 injured).

You can read more about it in the UN report here:


Are the people of Donbass under threat by nationalist groups? I can't say for sure but I do know that Azov is not the only group that exists in Ukraine with an affinity towards nationalism. See my previous post and personal experience having talked with someone who had lived in the region since childhood:


I will cite the above wikipedia article:

In 2018, a provision in an appropriations bill passed by the U.S. Congress blocked military aid to Azov on the grounds of its white supremacist ideology; in 2015, a similar ban on aid to the group was overturned by the Congress.

Are they being supported by the West? I am not sure, but people have been asking questions about this too:


Is there even a sliver of credence to the claim, just a tiny one?

Will drop some pictures from the peaceful Euromaidan protests for illustration:

#totallynotnationalistsunlessrussiannationlists

View attachment 1256014

View attachment 1256018
View attachment 1256022
View attachment 1256024
But at least 3 of the pictures you posted are from Russia, not Ukraine, showing Russian nationalists, not Ukrainians???
 

TEXTILE GUY

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Messages
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Gramps66

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Messages
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This is standard for any news broadcasting- make it as sensational as possible. Thats why we've seen football fans coming to SA with bulletproof vests in 2010.
I get your point but this wasn't just sensationalism , it was just plain false. Remember that in those days you didn't have social media or the internet to show that it wasn't true and coming from the BBC that was taken as fact.
 
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