US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

[buka001]

A-10 pilots wet dream.

 

[buka001]

Please say this is true. Hahaha.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498022940759240717

Has a Z on. So looks plausible.

 

[Gramps66]

Afghanistan harboured Al Qaeda which attacked the US. Taliban could have handed them over and avoided war.
Iraq attacked Kuwait.
Pakistan was not invaded. They just killed whatshisname.

Russia invaded Afghanistan and led to the death of 500,000 to 2,000.000 people.
Russia attacked separatist Chechnya and killed many people there.
Russia invaded Georgia.
Russia now invaded Ukraine and previously sponsored terrorists in separatist areas. Those people shot down a Dutch airliner and killed innocent civilians.

Yes... you probably also still believe that Saddam Hussein harbored weapons of mass distraction.

 

[Gramps66]

Afghanistan harboured Al Qaeda which attacked the US. Taliban could have handed them over and avoided war.
Iraq attacked Kuwait.
Pakistan was not invaded. They just killed whatshisname.

Russia invaded Afghanistan and led to the death of 500,000 to 2,000.000 people.
Russia attacked separatist Chechnya and killed many people there.
Russia invaded Georgia.
Russia now invaded Ukraine and previously sponsored terrorists in separatist areas. Those people shot down a Dutch airliner and killed innocent civilians.

Maybe you can also give us your expert opinion on this article provided by the US media itself

Bin Laden comes home to roost

Michael Moran looks at U.S. ties to Osama bin Laden, trained and funded by the CIA to wreak havoc on the Soviet Army and now turning his talents on Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Tun@]

A-10 pilots wet dream.

Don't know how true or false that site is but reads like no more air force

Russian air and missile strikes targeted a Ukrainian airbase in western Ukraine to ground the remaining Ukrainian air force the night of February 26-27.

Institute for the Study of War

The Russian military has likely recognized that its initial expectations that limited Russian attacks would cause the collapse of Ukrainian resistance have failed and is recalibrating accordingly. The Russian military is moving additional combat

www.understandingwar.org

 

[Grant]

Maybe you can also give us your expert opinion on this article provided by the US media itself

Bin Laden comes home to roost

Michael Moran looks at U.S. ties to Osama bin Laden, trained and funded by the CIA to wreak havoc on the Soviet Army and now turning his talents on Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

Bin laden trained by the CIA, turned his talents on the USA.
So after turning his talents on the USA, how is he doing these days?

 

[buka001]

Any link, to do that I will also need to send pilots, and I doubt they will be able to train pilots in a week or a month. It is not like the movies, where pilots can magically pilot any fighter jet.

Assuming there will be a few "merc's" who can fly those birds.

 

[Mirai]

Yes... you probably also still believe that Saddam Hussein harbored weapons of mass distraction.

And you're only capable of strawman arguments. Shame on you.

 

[Mirai]

During his evening programme tonight, Russian state TV presenter Dmitry Kiselyov delivered a monologue in which he posed the question: "why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?"
He was considering President Putin’s announcement today that he is putting Russia’s nuclear forces on high alert.
"In total our submarines are capable of launching over 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and all Nato countries to boot," he said on his Vesti Nedeli show.
"That's according to the principle 'why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?'
"Russia's nuclear weapons are also delivered by the fastest strategic bombers in the world," he said, adding that "we won't even talk about our Strategic Rocket Forces".
"In total, Russia's nuclear capability is the most powerful in the world," he said.
"Now Russia's entire nuclear triad has been placed on special alert. Putin warned them. Don't try to frighten Russia."

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877

 

[Mirai]

Maybe you can also give us your expert opinion on this article provided by the US media itself

Bin Laden comes home to roost

Michael Moran looks at U.S. ties to Osama bin Laden, trained and funded by the CIA to wreak havoc on the Soviet Army and now turning his talents on Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

Gramps66.

If the Soviet Union did not invade Afghanistan, CIA would not have trained him. Now you expect the CIA to have had a time machine. Shame on you.

Now why is there a Soviet Union. If the States let the Nazis wipe out the Russians, there would be no Soviet Union and no Russia now. So what exactly is your problem?

What sort of logic are you using?

There's a nice book you can read. Black Book of Communism. You can read about how many people USSR killed.
You can also see that nobody was brought to book and people just continued that BS doctrine.

 

[Mirai]

Assuming there will be a few "merc's" who can fly those birds.

Ukraine has pilots.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Assuming there will be a few "merc's" who can fly those birds.

The moment Russia gets wind that a NATO, or other UN, enlisted person is deployed to Ukraine, it will be amok, and all protocols which guide unity will be rubbished. Even mercs needs proper preparation, otherwise, you sit with pilots who are a bigger threat to you than the enemy, but to quote the Scotland's National Post,

EU foreign policy chief says fighter jets could be given to Ukraine

THE European Union last night said it could provide fighter jets to Ukraine while strengthening sanctions against Russia, as the conflict in the…

www.thenational.scot

Meanwhile, the EU’s foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said a military aid package worth €450 million (£376m) could include supplying fighter jets for the Ukrainian air force to use – after a request made by the country’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba.

He told reporters: "[Foreign] minister Kuleba has been asking us that they need the kind of fighter jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate. And we know what kind of planes, and some member states have these kind of planes.

A number of Eastern European countries operate the Soviet-era jets also in use by Ukraine's air force.

war being declared, Ukraine would be designated red air. I guess the Ukrainians will need to go and collect. I am curious how many active pilots they have... they lost an entire airbase in Crimea's annexation, more than 40 MiG-29s were captured by the Russians.

They have many trainers, pending on how operable these trainers are they should have a high-churn rate per every recruitment cycle.

 

[buka001]

I find the fact that Russia pushed for negotiations so early an indication that this has not gone as expected.

I think Russia views its "wars" through the lense of a special operation. Where the strategy is to smash an opponent that is vastly outgunned, quickly and effortlessly.

Georgia, the rebels in Syria and Ukraine in 2014 were such opponents.

Ukraine 2022 is different. In 2014 the handful of anti-tank weapons they had didn't even work. Much of their equipment hadn't been serviced since 1991.

Now they possess 1000's of the latest Javelins and NLAW's. They have drones which have produced good results and a trained soldier force that has combat experience.

The Russians expected the Ukrainians to melt away as they rolled in. Why else is there no 2nd or 3rd echelon behind the first that rolled in? The first out ran it supply line, as there is no 2nd echelon to secure that.


Why are Belarusian and Chechen troops being called in? Why would Putin ask the Ukrainian Army to carry out a coup?

I think it is because he did not plan for the Ukrainiams to fight the way they have.

Let's hope the negotiations bring an end to this senseless war.

However, for one thing, as a global strategic outcome this has been a epic failure. The EU have been unified and strengthened in resolve. Sweden seems to have been pushed closer to NATO far closer than any USSR threat ever did in the Cold War. Small states such as Kosovo are requesting NATO membership. The Russian economy is going to be hit hard tomorrow as markets open. Putin has become a pariah on a level not seen since the Cold War.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Another 'what if' scenario. You assume that the implementation of Minsk II would have prevented an invasion of Ukrainian sovereignty by Russia, without particularly addressing what problems it would have solved.

If the Ukrainian government truly wanted to end the conflict, they would have upheld the Minsk II accords, pulled those who were committing the UN cited war crimes back from the front lines and ensured that the cease-fire agreement was not broken.

The people of Donbass would have had a chance to make their own choice about what it is that they want to do given that their country went through such major changes and given that a whole lot of them did not agree with those changes in the first place.

The Ukrainian government has made it impossible for them to leave Ukraine and it has resulted in thousands of lives lost already. Many of those lives were Russian lives being lost, an attack on Russia its self.

You mix most parts of what you've said up with Russia invaded Ukraine so it's hard to give you a comprehensive response. I will try to address this below.

If Russia were intent on their self-announced peacekeeping mandate, they wouldn't have invaded the sovereignty of Ukraine which a load of here firmly believe is in the self-defence of Ukraine because your poster on the wall, Putin told you so.

So I have a Putin poster on my wall? You hate me, don't you?

Okay,

who are these foreign parties, or as the ANC would say, third-forces?

They are being encircled by a military alliance, it doesn't take the worlds best strategist to see this. Although there are great strategists out there who have pointed this out.

NATO is not a peaceful organization, ask the people of Libya.

There have even been parties within NATO have stated that the concerns raised by Putin were valid and could be have addressed. The only reason that they were not is because Biden refused to budge, this is a fact.

Putin stated on live TV that he is being blackmailed, that his legitimate security concerns regarding the safety of his country are not being addressed.

The concerns that everyone has been talking about all along, that you continue to disregard:



I think now, what possible reason could Putin have to put himself and his country in this position? Simply a maniac that wants to grab some extra land? This war in Ukraine is not worth it for Russia, the only thing they gain is the security that he needed to be addressed.

Russia stands to lose much more than they do to gain by invading Ukraine, remember that.

I thought Volodymyr Zelenskyy was legitimately elected in 2019, are you saying he is illegitimately elected?

Interesting you should say that, although legal by Ukrainian law, they did not meet the standards and practices of the international community. You can read the report from OSCE on this: https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ukraine/439631

Nevertheless, came into power after a coup where several laws were changed after the fact. 62% turnout with the people of Donbass having had no opportunity to vote despite them being considered by Ukraine as a part of Ukraine. The Ukrainian government had deemed it too unsafe to hold elections in those territories.

How you can call this a legitimate election is beyond me.

Wait, what, who is being invaded here? From where I am watching, Russia is hell-bent on Ukraine's demise.

Going to disregard this for being the 3rd Russia invaded Ukraine, I tried to address this above.

It doesn't, the Ukraine people's very lives are being threatened by an invader who is Russia. People aren't losing their lives in the name of Russia's self-defence.

4th, but will try to expand.

Russia is at war with a hostile military alliance, they stated quite clearly that the target is not the people of Ukraine and that they will try to minimize on loss of civilian life.

I agree that their lives at being threatened, I agree that the people of Ukraine have lives severely disrupted.

We disagree on who created the threat and problems that they face, it was avoidable.

I have stated my point of view on this many times over, I don't want to see people get killed. I condemn the loss of life. The war needs to end today.

The people of Ukraine do not want this war, they are being used, it has happened time and time and time again and they do not deserve this. If you support continued conflict in Ukraine, you're supporting their death.

 

[Dave]

You know you've fecked up when even Switzerland looks like it's going to take sides and support your opponents.

Neutral Swiss poised to freeze Russian assets - president

Swiss President Ignazio Cassis said on Sunday that it was "very probable" that neutral Switzerland would follow the European Union (EU) on Monday in sanctioning Russia and freezing Russian assets in the Alpine country.

www.reuters.com

GENEVA, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Swiss President Ignazio Cassis said on Sunday that it was "very probable" that neutral Switzerland would follow the European Union (EU) on Monday in sanctioning Russia and freezing Russian assets in the Alpine country.

Cassis, interviewed on French-language Swiss public television RTS, said that the seven-member Federal Council would meet on Monday and review recommendations by the departments of finance and economy.

Asked whether Switzerland -- a major financial centre and commodities trading hub -- would follow the EU in freezing Russian assets, he said: "It is very probable that the government will decide to do so tomorrow, but I cannot anticipate decisions not yet taken."

 

[theratman]

Assuming there will be a few "merc's" who can fly those birds.

I doubt there are too many. However Ukraine should have enough of their own pilots for the job. I think effective AA mobile platforms would be a better option. You aren't going to wrestle air supremacy away from the Russians, but you can hurt them.

 

[Fulcrum29]

The Russians expected the Ukrainians to melt away as they rolled in. Why else is there no 2nd or 3rd echelon behind the first that rolled in? The first out ran it supply line, as there is no 2nd echelon to secure that.

This is what the media, and NATO, is reporting. We don't know what logistics the Russians are busy setting up, and according to Maxar, the Russians currently have a 5 km long convoy en route to Kyiv, but we don’t know where Russia has established their advance bases or what their doctrine is here.

Social media at this time is a propaganda drive to boost morale and certainly, and convince the narrative, it is impossible to determine what is true and what is not without being there, being situationally aware.

Why are Belarusian and Chechen troops being called in? Why would Putin ask the Ukrainian Army to carry out a coup?

We, don't know what the report is with Belarus, yes, their presidency said it is a possibility, but there is no true sign that they themselves have invaded Ukraine, to quote the Kyiv Independent which is pro Ukraine,

Reports suggest Belarus prepares to send its troops to Ukraine, joining Putin in war

A message was shared in the diplomatic circles on Feb. 27 that Belarus airborne forces were preparing to invade Ukraine. Unnamed Belarusian opposition journalists were said to be the source. According to the report, Belarus special forces were boarding planes

kyivindependent.com

Reports suggest Belarus prepares to send its troops to Ukraine, joining Putin in war​

Unnamed Belarusian opposition journalists were said to be the source. According to the report, Belarus special forces were boarding planes on Feb. 27, preparing for deployment in or near Kyiv and Zhytomyr.

It’s not entirely possible to verify this report, since most opposition journalists have fled Belarus, escaping repressions by the regime of dictator Alexander Lukashenko.

A Telegram channel that collects eyewitnesses reports about the moving of Russian and Belarusian troops in Belarus recorded the movement of two military transport planes taking off from an airfield in western Belarus.

As of now, Belarus is de facto conducting war against Ukraine by letting Russian troops use its territory, and providing them with access to hospitals and intelligence. Now, according to the report, Belarus is preparing a full-out invasion.

it can only be believed once Belarusian troops are within the Ukrainian domain. Chechnya is a Russian constituent republic, and Kadyrovtsy volunteers and soldiers are there to serve Russia. Putin is playing the pro-Russian narrative in Ukraine, you know, he is there is to cleanse neo-Nazism.

I think it is because he did not plan for the Ukrainiams to fight the way they have.

In my view, Russia have long worked Ukraine, they have all the intelligence on Ukraine that they need, and most reactions would have been anticipated. They do have a hard time convincing their narrative to the public, but do they need to when they still have their economic partners backing them? This could be a short game, could be a long game, we simply don't know what Russia is setting out to achieve.

Let's hope the negotiations bring an end to this senseless war.

I don't always agree with Boris, but I agree with him on this one,

If he wants to stop, if he wants to withdraw, if he wants to negotiate, that's very good news. I have my doubts, I've got to tell you. Nothing I've seen so far in his behavior that leads me to think that he could possibly be sincere," Johnson said.

 

[wizardofid]

During his evening programme tonight, Russian state TV presenter Dmitry Kiselyov delivered a monologue in which he posed the question: "why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?"
He was considering President Putin’s announcement today that he is putting Russia’s nuclear forces on high alert.
"In total our submarines are capable of launching over 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and all Nato countries to boot," he said on his Vesti Nedeli show.
"That's according to the principle 'why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?'
"Russia's nuclear weapons are also delivered by the fastest strategic bombers in the world," he said, adding that "we won't even talk about our Strategic Rocket Forces".
"In total, Russia's nuclear capability is the most powerful in the world," he said.
"Now Russia's entire nuclear triad has been placed on special alert. Putin warned them. Don't try to frighten Russia."

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877

Lol so russia is willing to risk mutual destruction. Wonder if the US will call their bluff. I dont see this ending well, if russia launches a single warhead, I don't think the US is going to negotiate, it is going to be full on assault with zero mercy.
I expect the US has a IF playbook planned out, considering they are on level 3, so I can only assume they have already mobilised, carriers and bombers, ect.

Wish someone will call their bluff......

 

[buka001]

Kosovo have requested the US to establish a military base in their country and are submitting a request to join NATO.

Way to go Vlad.

 

[Fulcrum29]

WAR IN EUROPE: Pretoria scrambles to repair relations with Russia after calling for invasion forces to leave Ukraine

South Africa issued a surprisingly strong endorsement of Ukraine’s sovereignty last week. Now it’s scrambling to patch up relations with the Kremlin. Defence Minister Thandi Modise reportedly celebrated Russia’s Defender of the Fatherland Day at a reception at Russian ambassador's residence in...

www.dailymaverick.co.za

Pretoria scrambles to repair relations with Russia after calling for invasion forces to leave Ukraine​

South Africa issued a surprisingly strong endorsement of Ukraine’s sovereignty last week. Now it’s scrambling to patch up relations with the Kremlin. Defence Minister Thandi Modise reportedly celebrated Russia’s Defender of the Fatherland Day at a reception at Russian ambassador's residence in Pretoria on Thursday night, just hours after Russian tanks rolled into Ukraine and Russian missiles rained down on Ukrainian cities.​

South Africa has scrambled to patch up relations with Russia after International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor issued an unusually strong statement calling on Russia to withdraw from Ukraine.

President Cyril Ramaphosa was reported by the Sunday Times to be unhappy with the statement because he felt it contradicted South Africa’s policy.

A day after the statement from the Department of International Relations and Cooperation (Dirco) — apparently cleared by Pandor — which called for Russia to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, Ramaphosa seemed instead to blame US President Joe Biden for the invasion. He suggested that if Biden had agreed to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin unconditionally days before Moscow’s attack on Ukraine, it would have been averted.

He was apparently referring to Biden’s statement of 21 February that he would only meet Putin if the Russian president agreed in advance not to invade Ukraine.

The Sunday Times quoted unnamed sources in the Union Buildings as saying that Ramaphosa understood the history of the conflict. This seemed to suggest that Ramaphosa shared the view that Putin had been provoked to invade by broken Western promises in the 1990s not to extend membership of Nato up to Russia’s frontiers.

...

On Sunday, Ramaphosa indirectly intervened to reassure Russia that South Africa was on its side. Ramaphosa’s acting spokesperson, Tyrone Seale, told Daily Maverick that Minister in the Presidency Mondli Gungubele had resolved the issue when he was asked about it at a briefing of the Cabinet security cluster on Sunday.

Gungubele said the government’s stance was that it was for the parties in the conflict to mediate and negotiate.

“Over and above that, it is the stance of this country that we will always prefer peaceful solutions,” Gungubele said.

“We will always be opposed to any conflict that leads to a loss of life. We are not prepared to say anything beyond that,” he added, apparently trying to delete Pandor’s remarks retrospectively.