Well, I have read alot of the comments from members of this forum and it is all the news right now and everyone has their 2c. A forum is not only a space were we should be shouting and fighting, but also a space were one should listen. I'm chuffed to see that many here are been respectful to others (by majority)
While a lot of commentary here is personal and devoid from facts or deflective in nature. Many commenters here we fail to be objective to facts and rather debate on whichever position we follow, be it pro-Ukraine or pro-Russian. They has been some members who have been pretty bias but fairly so, in these issues you need to know the pre- "invasion" background and the geo-politics of the region and military capabilities of the two belligerents.
Now I will be honest and say that I am Pro-Russian, but only from a factual background in this discussions, not that I support them at all costs, but from the holistic understanding from the historic events. Some anti-Russian sentiments here are pretty weak and hopeful instead of factual, they is many instance I can mention which I can put forward. Many Pro-Russian comments are not addressing the illegality of the Russian actions, and they mention the previous "invasions" of the USA/ West etc etc. We should not forget that these parties are really related and cut from the same cloth who are engaged in war that could have been avoided. We now have innocent victims in Ukraine who are suffering the brunt of the super-powers decisions. You can see a clear brotherhood between the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers who are jointly guarding Chernobyl togethier,
Now here is the thing. If I was to be honest and I am followed by most academics, most are not pro-Russian but lay the blame at Ukraine and USA. Anyone who might look at the events and the historical context will easily how we are at this point. Propaganda is largely from the Ukrainian side, that is clear even BBC has highlighted that in their articles, perharps, and likely in Russia they is more Russian propaganda. Now I again understand that many do not have the knowledge the area events and politics, but I am pretty sure if you did have some information you would see that Russia has good reason. I do believe that Ukraine has been hood-winked and "bamboozled" into provoking Russia, and it was sad to see Zelensky who begged for "Immediate EU membership" yesterday and Joseh Borrell literally laughed at a prospect of Ukraine been incorprated in the EU. It shows that they is some beliefs Kiev held that they will be protected and were disillusioned in what will happen in a Russian "invasion". On CapeTalk last night I heard one Professor (leftist) stating that Zelensky admitted that they were mislead by the West, I checked online and I can not find that video, but it seems fair that it is possible. We might go back and look at Yugoslavia, and look at what a urban, civilian assault looks like. Now, I support Russia, not that I like them for the following reasons:
1. We have for the past years 13 000- 15 000 Russian speaking people in Ukraine who have been killed by Ukraine. Many have been gang raped, goods looted. Honestly, no nation like Russia can accept that type of situation
2. Minsk 2 accord. In the early 90's we had Gorbachev who allowed East Germany to be incorporated into Germany as a nation with the rule that NATO not expand and from 97 NATO has expanded in Eastern Europe
3. The Russian military operation has by majority focused on military installations, people of Ukraine are not afraid of Russian military men, and some semblance of life is still going on in Ukraine. Civil deaths are few and it seems that Kiev citizens are now been armed and are looting the city
4. Propaganda that we are receiving (including Russian media) is largely trying to mould our minds again the current operation
5. I support a short demilitarization of Ukraine which will prevent further loss of lives in eastern Ukraine and ALSO prevent any a greater Russian aggression against Ukraine
Not that what I will now say make a difference, but everyone here needs to separate their emotions and reasonable facts and likelihoods. Of note is that Biden said that Russia does not have "the right" to recognize an independent state, it is ironic that George Bush recognised Ukraine as a country outside the USSR which was a shock, ironic. When we start to play positions on which side we are on instead of the truth, we dilute our own personal ethics and convictions. Everybody knows Russian (militarily) will by far crush Ukraine, no use spending days here arguing otherwise and focusing on Ukraine "wins" as sad it may be. It is the same as our local politicians knowing what is right for the country, decide to do what is right for their agenda's. This is for pro-Russian and anti-Russian statements. If you know the brutality the Ukrainian military in eastern Ukraine has been committing you would understand well the position of Russia. They has been many years of discussions/talks.
Ask yourself, if you where a Russian citizen been threatened by NATO or a citizen in Luhansk after years of living like a hobo from middle class lifestyle how would you feel. On the other hand, how does one feel living in Lutsk been brought into the fray by now having to move and suffer. Now who is the perp's here? You know.... But President Zelansky obviously was mislead and used as a pawn to make his population suffer. Russian citizens will now also suffer due to the sanctions as well. India, China, Africa, S.America populations, not necessarily governments support Russia with the scope they have about the events. Operation Unthinkable and others where not by the USSR, everybody wants peace, Banderites and other paramilitary groups have to accept to come to peace as well.
Be objective or atleast lets try, if not you defeat your own moral conscience. Follow your views on principal not not group interests. Point out faults even they are yours.
(and no I don't mean get invaded by Russia, though you never know with Putin and his temper tantrums)
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