US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

[rambo919]

well if Nuclear winter happens and darkens the skies for Years,
no crops, means no food, means looting and plundering on an epic scale, then the famine and population decline,
diseases, and attrition will wipe out the rest,

wait a few years safely inside your Bunker, open the doors, and Voila,
utopia, population will be smaller, more manageable, free ideas and free thought wont exist,

its not actually that hard, just somebody has to make the first move and get the show on the road.

Neva gonna happen, they are too smart to poop where they eat.

 

[rambo919]

Except Stalin never said that

Seems just as difficult to prove he did not as that he did.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Has Putin ridden into Ukraine on his horse yet?

 

[ToxicBunny]

well if Nuclear winter happens and darkens the skies for Years,
no crops, means no food, means looting and plundering on an epic scale, then the famine and population decline,
diseases, and attrition will wipe out the rest,

wait a few years safely inside your Bunker, open the doors, and Voila,
utopia, population will be smaller, more manageable, free ideas and free thought wont exist,

its not actually that hard, just somebody has to make the first move and get the show on the road.

Yeah, no.

Nuclear winter and no crops/food for a few years.

You don't get to chill out in your bunker and emerge to some magical Utopia...

You will either starve to death or be killed for your stores within a few months, and even if you manage to survive for a few years you will emerge to a hellhole of epic proportions.

 

[ForceFate]

Seems just as difficult to prove he did not as that he did.

Sounds similar to Mario Ambrosini's boiling frog.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Except Stalin never said that

Oh darn, it seems that I clean forgot to leave a spoiler alert regarding the easily triggering nature of the content.

 

[ForceFate]

Oh darn, it seems that I clean forgot to leave a spoiler alert regarding the easily triggering nature of the content.

Erm...who's triggered?

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Erm...who's triggered?

Okay, I tried but could not figure it out. The the image is for illustrative purposes only. You make a valid point though.

 

[The Trutherizer]

Yeah so the thing is, while I do not claim that it is fictional or impossible I personally find it dumbfounding that the Russians are responsible on every occasion for the failures of the US policy makers or for the outcome of their own (well-monitored) electoral affairs. First we get blasted about how the Russians helped the Republicans into power, then we get blasted about how they helped the Democrats into power.

As someone with family in the US, rv and yourself are not the first people that I have heard this rhetoric from. I find it utterly absurd to think that the Russians rule the US by proxy and regardless of popular consent, the levels of technological capability or general ability of the government officials to make a change to the situation.

It's all demonisation if you ask me, there will always be a need for an enemy. The less things make sense, the louder the propaganda will get until eventually the few people left asking real questions are drowned out by the roar of the common narrative that is to be achieved.

First time I hear about them helping the Democrats into power tbh. Not sure where you got that from.

 

[Fulcrum29]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495255255386365955

I wouldn’t trust The Greyzone’s immediate views on matters since they are clearly pandering towards some curious interests, however, they quoted The Washington Post, and the TWP raised the same issues I had, not to mention that the article authors are very reputable.

To quote the TWP,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/19/ukraine-russia-munich-zelensky/

Asked how he knew Putin’s intentions, Biden noted in his remarks Friday that the United States has “a significant intelligence capability.” He also said that before making his speech, he had a call with the leaders of NATO allies and the European Union “to bring them up to date on what the United States thinks is the current state of affairs and what’s likely to happen in Ukraine in the coming days.”

Some European allies questioned the United States’ conviction that the Kremlin will launch hostilities, saying that they have not seen direct evidence suggesting Putin has committed to such a course of action.

One European official told The Washington Post in Munich that “we have no clear evidence ourselves that Putin has made up his mind and we have not seen anything that would suggest otherwise.” Another said that although the situation is grave, “at this stage we do not have such clear intelligence” that Putin has decided to invade.

The officials said they have been told little about the sources and methods the United States used to arrive at its conclusions, limiting their capacity to make independent decisions about how much weight to give statements from Biden that Putin has made a decision to attack.

...

“It’s always the raw material that they do not share,” said one senior NATO diplomat who has had extensive conversations with top American policymakers in Brussels.

The British have not been among those making such complaints. U.K. Foreign Secretary Liz Truss sounded similar warnings to the United States in Munich on Saturday, asserting that Ukraine’s “worst-case scenario” — a Russian invasion — “could happen as early as next week.”

I am not the only one doubting these claims, and the UK is on the vocals with the US. However, the threat could be real, it is how the message is being conveyed I question.

Just to quote Al Jazeera,

Satellite images show new military movements by Russia

Maxar Technologies documents combat units moving around Russian bordering towns, citing ‘increased state of readiness’.

www.aljazeera.com

Satellite images show new military movements by Russia​

Maxar Technologies documents combat units moving around Russian bordering towns, citing an ‘increased state of readiness’.

...

Based on the tracks and the snow, the activity appeared to be recent, Stephen Wood, senior director at Maxar News Bureau, told Reuters news agency.

now the Maxar News Bureau is a partnership program, to quote themselves,

Our Purpose | Data Philanthropy

Maxar's purpose is to achieve a better world with the work we do. We support people, organizations and initiatives dedicated to improving the health and sustainability of our planet.

www.maxar.com

The Maxar News Bureau is a partnership program with trusted media organizations around the world. We provide satellite imagery as visual evidence of ground truth to promote global transparency and expose injustice. Access to high-resolution satellite imagery has enabled journalists to accurately report on areas that are too remote, dangerous or otherwise inaccessible.

but how is this data being interpreted, what is the situational awareness on the ground, and how does Maxar's Stephen Wood determine that Russian military movements are increased readiness, and readiness measures against which metrics? Now the media will take this, and report that increased readiness equates to imminent invasion.

The public is not on a need-to-know basis, they are on this is what you need to know basis. Both the 'West' and the 'East' are strangling people around their necks with manipulative discourse, and social media is nauseating.

 

[Unhappy438]

 

[IndigoIdentity]

First time I hear about them helping the Democrats into power tbh. Not sure where you got that from.

Well, if you read my post

Basically, you've only got and support one side of the story.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Thank you, I truly feel honored and hope that you will all remember me after the forthcoming Russian invasion!

 

[The Trutherizer]

Well, if you read my post

Basically, you've only got and support one side of the story.

Personally I think that after Trump the Democrats could have fielded a chicken and they would have won.

 

[ForceFate]

Personally I think that after Trump the Democrats could have fielded a chicken and they would have won.

That's going to rub a few people the wrong way. It might even derail the thread.

 

[Dave]

Nonsense, "shown" by US/UK propaganda driven Western Media. The numbers in the result of the referendum were not disputed.

The lower figures were confirmed by a Kremlin report. This has all been posted and links shown.

Don't drift into the thread weeks after everyone else and start arguing things that were already discussed, it makes the thread a mess to participate in. Go back and read the last two weeks.

 

[rambo919]

Personally I think that after Trump the Democrats could have fielded a chicken and they would have won.

They did....

 

[Dave]

2014 Crimean status referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

​

Official results​

According to the Central Election Commission of Ukraine on February 28, 2014 there were 1,534,815 registered voters in the autonomous republic of Crimea and 309,774 in the city of Sevastopol, which totals to 1,844,589 voters in the two Ukrainian regions.[135]

According to organizers of the referendum, 1,274,096 people voted in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, giving the plebiscite an 83.1% turnout in that region.[a]

Choice	Votes	Percentage of registered voters	Percentage of all ballots cast	Percentage of valid votes
Join the Russian Federation as federal subject of Russia?	1,233,002	80.42%	96.77%	97.47%
Restore the 1992 Crimea constitution and become a part of Ukraine?	31,997	2.09%	2.51%	2.53%
Subtotal of valid votes	1,264,999	82.51%	99.29%	100.00%
Invalid or blank votes	9,097	0.59%	0.72%	—
Total votes cast	1,274,096	83.1%	100.00%	—
Registered voters that did not participate	≈ 259,112	16.9%	—	—
Total registered voters	[f] ≈ 1,533,208	100.00%	—	—

Final results from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea[a]
[citation needed](Values in italics are calculated by an editor rather than provided by official sources.)

Choice	Votes	Percentage of registered voters	Percentage of all ballots cast	Percentage of valid votes
Join the Russian Federation as Federal subject of Russia?	262,041	85.56%	95.6%	96.59%
Restore the 1992 Crimea constitution and become a part of Ukraine?	9,250	3.02%	3.37%	3.41%
Subtotal of valid votes	271,291	88.58%	98.97%	100.00%
Invalid or blank votes	2,810	0.92%	1.03%	—
Total votes cast	274,101	89.50%	100.00%	—
Registered voters that did not participate	32,157	10.50%	—	—
Total registered voters	[dubious – discuss]306,258	100.00%	—	—

Final results from Sevastopol[1]
(Values in italics are calculated by an editor rather than provided by official sources.)

It could only be you that would post Wikipedia. Well, you or @Sensorei i suppose.

Myth, ’observers’ & victims of Russia’s fake Crimean referendum

Since the 2nd anniversary of Russia’s pseudo ‘referendum’ on Crimea comes as the West is pushing Ukraine to agree to ‘elections’ in Kremlin-controlled Donbas, it seems worth recalling that supposed ‘expression of the people’s will’ and the motley crowd of far-right, neo-Nazi or extreme left-wing...

khpg.org

Even Putin’s own Human Rights Council confirmed, after a visit to Crimea, that the turnout had been much lower than reported, and the results far less overwhelmingly in favour of joining Russia.

The report found that while a large majority of residents of Sevastopol (where the Russian Black Sea Fleet was based) had voted for ‘joining Russia’ (turnout of 50-80%), the turnout for all of Crimea was from 30-50% and only 50-60% of those voted for joining Russia.

The authors also noted that Crimean residents had voted less for joining Russia, than for what they called an end to corrupt lawlessness and thieving rule of people brought in from Donetsk (where Viktor Yanukovych and most of his people were from). It was only in Sevastopol, they say, that people genuinely voted for joining Russia.

The report was prepared by Council member Yevgeny Bobrov; together with prominent human rights defender Svetlana Gannushkina and lawyer Olga Tsetlina, following a visit to Simferopol and Sevastopol from April 15-18.

Retribution against Crimean Tatars who opposed annexation and refused to take part in the farcical referendum was swift. It has since intensified, and the Mejlis’ leaders are now exiled or imprisoned. Those few still at liberty may not be for long if the Mejlis is outlawed.

 

[thestaggy]

Retribution against Crimean Tatars who opposed annexation and refused to take part in the farcical referendum was swift. It has since intensified, and the Mejlis’ leaders are now exiled or imprisoned. Those few still at liberty may not be for long if the Mejlis is outlawed.

Moscow exiling and seeking retribution against minorities, a story as old as time.

 

[Emjay]

I wouldn’t trust The Greyzone’s immediate views on matters since they are clearly pandering towards some curious interests, however, they quoted The Washington Post, and the TWP raised the same issues I had, not to mention that the article authors are very reputable.

To quote the TWP,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/19/ukraine-russia-munich-zelensky/

I am not the only one doubting these claims, and the UK is on the vocals with the US. However, the threat could be real, it is how the message is being conveyed I question.

Just to quote Al Jazeera,

Satellite images show new military movements by Russia

Maxar Technologies documents combat units moving around Russian bordering towns, citing ‘increased state of readiness’.

www.aljazeera.com

now the Maxar News Bureau is a partnership program, to quote themselves,

Our Purpose | Data Philanthropy

Maxar's purpose is to achieve a better world with the work we do. We support people, organizations and initiatives dedicated to improving the health and sustainability of our planet.

www.maxar.com

but how is this data being interpreted, what is the situational awareness on the ground, and how does Maxar's Stephen Wood determine that Russian military movements are increased readiness, and readiness measures against which metrics? Now the media will take this, and report that increased readiness equates to imminent invasion.

The public is not on a need-to-know basis, they are on this is what you need to know basis. Both the 'West' and the 'East' are strangling people around their necks with manipulative discourse, and social media is nauseating.

Can you elaborate? What is Aaron Mate pandering towards? As far as I can tell, he panders for anti-war. He is consistent in this. I would trust Aaron Mate before trusting the Washington Post, which serves corporates interests.