US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war

[rvZA]

Putin gets green light to deploy troops to eastern Ukraine​

Putin said Moscow had recognised the independence of Ukraine's separatist regions within their administrative borders, including territory controlled by Kyiv.

"Well, we recognized them. And this means that we recognized all their fundamental documents, including the constitution," Putin told reporters.

"And the constitution spells out the borders within the Donetsk and Lugansk regions at the time when they were part of Ukraine."

DEVELOPING | UN tally of confirmed civilian deaths in Ukraine approaches 8 500 | News24

As Russia embarks on its war with Ukraine, it is facing diplomatic, economic and public pushback from many different quarters.

www.news24.com

 

[rvZA]

Putin calls on Ukraine to demilitarize​

Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a press conference Tuesday, has called on Ukraine to demilitarize.

Russia-Ukraine: Biden announces sanctions, troop movements in response to invasion: LIVE UPDATES

European officials say Russian troops have arrived in eastern Ukraine after Vladimir Putin announced he would recognize the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, two breakaway regions.

www.foxnews.com

 

[rvZA]

Well...... Ukraine was warned.....

 

[Drifter]

Not a single shot has been fired, more a BBQ than WWIII.

 

[Kodi]

I usually watch this guy for these types of events. He scours all resources for info,
essentially doing journalistic leg-work live.

 

[Howdy]

The US now just needs to put some peacekeeping forces into the newly declared Cape Republic.

No, we are - as soon as we can get a working flossie put together.

 

[Impala]

Russia has massed and withdrawn multiple times since November ... essentially trolling NATO

Any possible link, that is not including the so called withdrawal of troops last week.

Demanding what was promised is not aggression, if the USSR did not let Ukraine go there would be no Ukraine, if the guarantees made to the USSR were how they were convinced to let Ukraine (and others) go, then the demand is only natural and nowhere near aggression ... the ones breaking that guarantee are far more aggressive

Who promised who? Would like to read up on that.
The USSR does not exist anymore and Russia has no legitimate claim to Ukraine. The USSR declared Ukraine independent in 1991.

NATO was explicitly created to counter the Soviet Union, it has literally no other reason to exist ... you wouldn't be concerned by a multinational military alliance focused specifically on you?

I think the existence is clearly justified. Georgia 2008, Crimea 2014.

Incorrect, Russia had agreements in place with Ukraine to keep a naval base there forever i.e. they certainly didn't invade as their troops had a legal right to be there

Secondly: there was an actual referendum, the west can say what it wants, you can find enough independent documentaries of Crimean people on the ground confirming they all did in fact vote to become part of Russia

Yes, so only the base was considered Russian territory. You clearly forgot to mention the Russian troops and vehicles across the Crimea, and troops giving the Ukrainian soldiers an ultimate that they are to leave the bases or force will be used. The Ukrainian government was threatened that if any defence or resistance was set up by the Ukrainian military, Russia will continue to invade the rest of the country.
Yes there was a referendum, and it might be that the people of Crimea wanted this, but there is still a big doubt placed over the legitimacy of the referendum. Just look at what happened to the Crimean parliament in late February 2014 when it was taken over by armed men (most likely Russian SF), and immediately the current PM was voted out and replaced by a Russian Unity Party member, a party which only had 4% of the vote in the previous election)

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Check for youself: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-21-22/index.html
At the time of posting (this post) the last update is 11 hours 34 minutes ago, newest entries at top.

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[etienne_marais]

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Nevermind, check the date in the URL (US format)

 

[etienne_marais]

21 min ago​

NATO chief: Russia has now moved from "covert attempts" to "overt military action" in Ukraine​

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Tuesday said Russia has now moved “from covert attempts to destabilize Ukraine to overt military action.”

“Moscow has now moved from covert attempts to destabilize Ukraine to overt military action. This is a serious escalation by Russia, and a flagrant violation of international law,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference in Brussels following a meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission.

He called the Russia-Ukraine crisis “the most dangerous moment in European security for a generation."

"NATO is resolute and united in its determination to protect and defend all allies. In the last weeks, allies have deployed 1000s more troops to eastern part of the alliance and placed more on standby. We have over 100 jets at high alert and there are more than 120 allies’ ships at the sea from the high north to the Mediterranean," he added.

"We will continue to do whatever is necessary to shield the alliance from aggression," he continued.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Any possible link, that is not including the so called withdrawal of troops last week.

Russia withdraws 10,000 troops from Ukrainian border ahead of planned negotiations next month

The Russian military has said the troops have returned to their permanent bases after participating in "months-long drills" near the border.

www.foxnews.com

Who promised who? Would like to read up on that.

NATO's Eastward Expansion: Is Vladimir Putin Right?

Vladimir Putin insists that the West cheated Russia by expanding NATO eastward following the end of the Cold War. Is there anything to his claims? The short answer: It's complicated.

www.spiegel.de

The USSR does not exist anymore and Russia has no legitimate claim to Ukraine. The USSR declared Ukraine independent in 1991.

A declaration only achieved after a promise was made, a promise that was broken a mere 2/3 years later

I think the existence is clearly justified. Georgia 2008, Crimea 2014.

Crimea was a response to a western instigated coup, you can't start a fight and then moan about the response being aggressive

You clearly forgot to mention the Russian troops and vehicles across the Crimea, and troops giving the Ukrainian soldiers an ultimate that they are to leave the bases or force will be used. The Ukrainian government was threatened that if any defence or resistance was set up by the Ukrainian military, Russia will continue to invade the rest of the country

Indeed, that's how realpolitik works

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Yes, we took to their ideological stance, which has sprouted and branched into socio and political systems. The question is, do we, the nation, owe them? We plead to the West when in trouble. Nevertheless, it is the Chinese who shape us now. As much as we want to take a position on global matters, we are in debt to both the East and the West. I wonder who actually listens to us?

To some extent I am happy that the SANDF is in ruin, we have nothing to give when the world goes into turmoil.

Personally, I think that we owe 0 given that we have already been through enough b/s over the years to count for several life times already, but, I also feel that the b/s will not end in this one. We as a country currently enjoy the freedoms allotted to us by the ruling party which holds a majority of the vote. If we as a country do not like the taste of the tea that is being served up, there are a few other flavors to choose from. History however has never been kind towards a minority opinion.

As much as I appreciate that we as a country are basically a military cake walk, SA has does have atleast one thing that is worth a war over, the country its self holds highly strategic location does it not? I could just imagine that there would be at least a few of those old and bearded folks who would be willing to fight over that. A scary thought tbh.

 

[Cray]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496164886002425861

 

[etienne_marais]

2 min ago

State Department official: "Russia never fulfilled" its obligations under the Minsk agreements​

From CNN's Jennifer Hansler

In remarks delivered prior to Russian President Vladimir Putin's Tuesday address, Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman noted that “Russia never fulfilled a single, solitary one of its obligations under the Minsk agreements.”

“Russia has not supported a ceasefire. Russia has not removed its heavy weapons from proscribed zones. Russia has not granted unfettered access for SMM monitors,” she said in remarks delivered virtually to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

“The ink was barely dry on the Minsk agreements before Moscow began to pretend that its guns, its artillery systems, and its anti-aircraft missiles had never been inside Ukraine at all,” she continued. “They attempted to gaslight the world into believing it was all a mirage, and that Russia had never been a party to this conflict.”
“Now Russia has showed the world its true intentions by once again violating Ukraine’s sovereignty, territorial integrity, and its internationally recognized borders,” Sherman said.

 

[Impala]

Russia withdraws 10,000 troops from Ukrainian border ahead of planned negotiations next month

The Russian military has said the troops have returned to their permanent bases after participating in "months-long drills" near the border.

www.foxnews.com

NATO's Eastward Expansion: Is Vladimir Putin Right?

Vladimir Putin insists that the West cheated Russia by expanding NATO eastward following the end of the Cold War. Is there anything to his claims? The short answer: It's complicated.

www.spiegel.de

A declaration only achieved after a promise was made, a promise that was broken a mere 2/3 years later


Crimea was a response to a western instigated coup, you can't start a fight and then moan about the response being aggressive


Indeed, that's how realpolitik works

I won't say withdrawing 10% of the troops at the border is any relief.

It seems that he made a promise to him, and someone else made a different promise to someone else and now everyone is confused about what was promised. This was clearly not an international treaty, so the promise has no legality at all. I might check and see if I can find a possible treaty.

 

[Cray]

Crimea was a response to a western instigated coup, you can't start a fight and then moan about the response being aggressive

Weird how you disregard the election that happened in 2019? So even if you accept the coup nonsense, that guy was voted out.. Or do you dispute the 2019 election too?

 

[GrootVoet]

Biden is weak and Putin knows it.

NATO and the EU are divided and not ready to wage a war on their door step. As long as their is no humanitarian crises no shot will be fired.

Putin got them by the short and curly's because the West needs his gas more than he needs their trade. Wait and see what a few weeks with a $100+ oil price will do.

 

[Polymathic]

People across Africa? I doubt many know where the Ukraine is

For most South Africans everything East of Germany is Russia.

 

[etienne_marais]

2 min ago

Russia is pulling diplomatic staff from Ukraine, Russian foreign ministry says​

 

[Solarion]

This thread has forced me to dig out all my cold war tracks, get that old vibe going again. Can just see it, sitting in a restaurant in Spain, shifting parcels under the tables, our secrets for yours. All totally legit.