US Politics: Bike tricks

[Kieppie]

Think you should look at the number of facilities and shelters scattered throughout the US which these migrants are detained or given shelter. It’s already spread around.

That's only those that are "caught". Pity they don't stay in said facilities until they are deported.

Again these are only for those actually encountered, many more slip through unnoticed. The latest news cycle served to bring this problem home, literally and figuratively.
Yet the public have been gaslit by some officials and pundits claiming it isn't actually a crisis. All these encounters occur via these border towns, so from their perspective it appears to be a full on invasion.
Then add the whole "no person is illegal" nonsense on top of this...

 

[Pegasus]

These progressive climate idiots are not sending their best.

 

[quovadis]

That's only those that are "caught". Pity they don't stay in said facilities until they are deported.

Again these are only for those actually encountered, many more slip through unnoticed. The latest news cycle served to bring this problem home, literally and figuratively.
Yet the public have been gaslit by some officials and pundits claiming it isn't actually a crisis. All these encounters occur via these border towns, so from their perspective it appears to be a full on invasion.
Then add the whole "no person is illegal" nonsense on top of this...

So you're arguing the democrats under Biden have the greatest enforcement in +-7 months compared to any annual number for the past 20 years including Trump? And before that it was Clinton back in 2000???

What did Trump do wrong and what could Biden do better?

 

[Kieppie]

These progressive climate idiots are not sending their best.

You're being rude, that is one of their best.

 

[quovadis]

Here's a thought for you. I'm going to dump 1000 migrants from Moz in your back yard, give you a R1000 a month, then you have to feed, shelter them, give them medical care or we'll come down on you ...

If you squeal too loudly, we might increase that to R5000. In the meantime your patio furniture is not safe, you might find the SAPS reaction unit visit at 2am in the morning and toss your place after one of the guests you're responsible for attacked the neighbour, one sold some drugs to a kid, while another killed the shop owner and stole their car ...

See where this is going?

Hey, presto, your life just turned to ****, but with me spending a R1000/R5000, I've kept a problem away from my yard. And just because I don't like you, I tell the Moz press what a lekka place Camp Quovadis is.

Yet you never asked for the squatters, but I suspect you already got all of the above.

Ok I'm going to ignore the argument regarding sheltering migrants in my own backyard and the cost in doing so.

What I will address is that the border towns across the entire southern border in terms of violent crime are around 15% on AVERAGE lower than the national average despite migrant population. If you look at Del Rio, Texas it's violence and property crime is at a rate of 106 incidents per 100,000. Lima, Ohio with the same population of Del Rio is almost 7x that.

 

[Kieppie]

So you're arguing the democrats under Biden have the greatest enforcement in +-7 months compared to any annual number for the past 20 years including Trump? And before that it was Clinton back in 2000???

How is catching and releasing the "greatest enforcement"? The only thing Biden did was encourage the increase in numbers, nothing more.

What did Trump do wrong and what could Biden do better?

He did not manage to complete enough of the border wall, due to interference by the opposition and ironically continued in places under Biden. Nor did he put in place strict enough laws dealing with said illegals, again partly undermined by the opposition.

Biden can, as a start, reimplement many of the Trump policies he had removed. First and foremost the stay in Mexico policy. Increase funding towards ICE, to match in spikes in encounters, in spite of the progressive caucus calling for its abolishment. He won't since they need their votes.

 

[Kieppie]

Ok I'm going to ignore the argument regarding sheltering migrants in my own backyard and the cost in doing so.

What I will address is that the border towns across the entire southern border in terms of violent crime are around 15% on AVERAGE lower than the national average despite migrant population. If you look at Del Rio, Texas it's violence and property crime is at a rate of 106 incidents per 100,000. Lima, Ohio with the same population of Del Rio is almost 7x that.

Migrant population <> Illegal aliens.
Also Lima has a gang problem

 

[quovadis]

How is catching and releasing the "greatest enforcement"? The only thing Biden did was encourage the increase in numbers, nothing more.

Now you're just trolling.

He did not manage to complete enough of the border wall, due to interference by the opposition and ironically continued in places under Biden. Nor did he put in place strict enough laws dealing with said illegals, again partly undermined by the opposition.

Republicans had the presidency, senate and house locked. No amount of interference would've been able to prevent Trump actually getting his wall or immigration reform if he wanted it and it wasn't just political theatre. He didn't and that's on him and the GOP.

Biden can, as a start, reimplement many of the Trump policies he had removed. First and foremost the stay in Mexico policy. Increase funding towards ICE, to match in spikes in encounters, in spite of the progressive caucus calling for its abolishment. He won't since they need their votes.

I think you might want to go take a look at the funding and last appropriations bill as the funding has been increased to levels never seen before. As for the stay in Mexico policy - it had to do only with asylum claimants. As you've indicated before you're more interested in illegals who aren't following immigration procedures/avenues so not sure why it's an issue to you.

Edit: Updated senate and house rather than senate and congress.

 

[quovadis]

Migrant population <> Illegal aliens.
Also Lima has a gang problem

Now you're being obtuse. He argued it's not great to have to deal with crime on your doorstep because of the presence of migrants/illegal aliens/people crossing border. If your crime stats are 15% lower than the national average then you're not doing that bad? As for Lima - so american gangs are ok as long as they're not migrants?

 

[Kieppie]

Now you're just trolling.

Why? The surge in numbers is a direct result of Biden and Kamala on the campaign trail. So much so that she later had to give that definitive Do not come... do not come." message. Added to the constant rhetoric about the border being open.

Republicans had the presidency, senate and congress locked. No amount of interference would've been able to prevent Trump actually getting his wall or immigration reform if he wanted it and it wasn't just political theatre. He didn't and that's on him and the GOP.

No the Dems were against it from the get go. The Republicans couldn't break the filibuster. It just became easier after they took the house.

Senate Democrats may block Trump's plan to fund border wall | CNN Politics

Senior Democrats privately say that a funding bill to build the border wall will likely be blocked in the Senate -- especially if the plan would add to the deficit or impose a new tax on Mexican imports.

edition.cnn.com

Senate Dems introduce bill to rescind Trump border wall, immigration order

Senate Democrats are moving to nix President Trump’s push to build a border wall and boost immigration enforcement. Twenty-four Democrats — spearheaded by Sen. Tom Carper (Del.) — are in…

thehill.com

I think you might want to go take a look at the funding and last appropriations bill as the funding has been increased to levels never seen before. As for the stay in Mexico policy - it had to do only with asylum claimants. As you've indicated before you're more interested in illegals who aren't following immigration procedures/avenues so not sure why it's an issue to you.

No the funding levels for ICE remained the same relatively, but they had their approach changed (read less effective).
It's easy, since they all claim to be asylum seekers when caught. No one will say they are there for the free stuff and jobs.

If no one is allowed entry, period, it makes the process much simpler. Anyone crossing the border illegally can then be treated as a criminal and their deportation expedited.

 

[Kieppie]

Now you're being obtuse. He argued it's not great to have to deal with crime on your doorstep because of the presence of migrants/illegal aliens/people crossing border. If your crime stats are 15% lower than the national average then you're not doing that bad? As for Lima - so american gangs are ok as long as they're not migrants?

No, migrants which came in legally are generally very hard working and law abiding to boot, since they don't want to lose that privilege.
With illegal aliens, who already committed a crime just entering the country, you have more a mixed bag. They also don't stay in the border areas as that makes them easier to be caught.
This is true even in Europe where studies found links between their migrants and soaring violence/crime

Black on black gang crime is a scourge in the US, more so than Latino gangs (excluding California).

 

[quovadis]

Why? The surge in numbers is a direct result of Biden and Kamala on the campaign trail. So much so that she later had to give that definitive Do not come... do not come." message. Added to the constant rhetoric about the border being open.

You must be suffering such internal conflict? You're making a non-sensical argument.

No the Dems were against it from the get go. The Republicans couldn't break the filibuster. It just became easier after they took the house.

Anyone can introduce a bill. You still need votes. The process is the same but truth is GOP didn't support it.

No the funding levels for ICE remained the same relatively, but they had their approach changed (read less effective).
It's easy, since they all claim to be asylum seekers when caught. No one will say they are there for the free stuff and jobs.

If no one is allowed entry, period, it makes the process much simpler. Anyone crossing the border illegally can then be treated as a criminal and their deportation expedited.

Factually false. Funding for the southern border has increased. Go look at the appropriations and budget. As for your proposals perhaps immigration reform is better than an executive order. Trump didn't get it done either.

 

[quovadis]

No, migrants which came in legally are generally very hard working and law abiding to boot, since they don't want to lose that privilege.
With illegal aliens, who already committed a crime just entering the country, you have more a mixed bag. They also don't stay in the border areas as that makes them easier to be caught.
This is true even in Europe where studies found links between their migrants and soaring violence/crime

Black on black gang crime is a scourge in the US, more so than Latino gangs (excluding California).

Focus. Europe is not the USA. We're discussing USA. We're also not discussing gangs.

Border towns = LESS violence/property crime than national average regardless of immigration status. You're moving the goal posts again as the entire argument is these towns are overrun, unable to cope with crime and mayhem which isn't very nice for them.

If you want to assert now that illegal aliens are committing huge amounts of crime then cite the data compared to the citizenry but it's not the context of the discussion.

 

[Kieppie]

You must be suffering such internal conflict? You're making a non-sensical argument.

If you call stating things that actually happened "nonsensical" then sure I guess... Discarding news articles at the time have a look at more recent ones

Border Patrol chief blames Biden policies for migrant surge at border

“In my experience, we have seen increases when there are no consequences,” Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz said.

nypost.com

Anyone can introduce a bill. You still need votes. The process is the same but truth is GOP didn't support it.

They did, but needed Dem support. Dems love using the filibuster when it suits them. I guess you're just not aware of how much the Anti-Trump sentiment influenced attempts at policy changes.

Factually false. Funding for the southern border has increased. Go look at the appropriations and budget. As for your proposals perhaps immigration reform is better than an executive order. Trump didn't get it done either.

Where do you get this nonsense? First of all I mentioned ICE specifically, but lets look at CBP

But it gives US Customs and Border Protection just $14.8 billion, a $428 million decrease from fiscal year 2021. (Factor in inflation, and the cuts are even deeper.)

Biden cuts border funding as his policies are about to overwhelm it

Democrats care more about climate-change slush funds than protecting America’s borders — even as their policies are about to make the problem even worse.

nypost.com

 

[quovadis]

If you call stating things that actually happened "nonsensical" then sure I guess... Discarding news articles at the time have a look at more recent ones

They did, but needed Dem support. Dems love using the filibuster when it suits them. I guess you're just not aware of how much the Anti-Trump sentiment influenced attempts at policy changes.

Where do you get this nonsense? First of all I mentioned ICE specifically, but lets look at CBP

Geesh guy. The budget for FY2022 was left flat due to the surge in enforcement but also had additional discretionary allowances. As for 2023 draft released in mid-June 2022- "Fiscal Year 2023 Homeland Security Funding Bill - Subsection: U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) – The bill recommends $15.74 billion, an increase of $893.8 million above the FY 2022 enacted level and $338.1 million above the request"

As for legislation - Trump and GOP had the opportunity and didn't with the majorities they had.

 

[Kieppie]

Focus. Europe is not the USA. We're discussing USA. We're also not discussing gangs.

It is actually relevant, if it happens with normal migrants it will happen with illegals as well. Well gangs are actually a large part of the problem w.r.t. illegals, but the point was more to do with your chosen local for comparison.

Border towns = LESS violence/property crime than national average regardless of immigration status. You're moving the goal posts again as the entire argument is these towns are overrun, unable to cope with crime and mayhem which isn't very nice for them.
If you want to assert now that illegal aliens are committing huge amounts of crime then cite the data compared to the citizenry but it's not the context of the discussion.

It's a meaningless argument. Even if you compare the crime statistics of the towns with themselves and compare it to spikes in illegal crossings, which is what one should do, it still does not account for the fact that the U.S. Border Patrol agents has grown nearly x3 between 1998 and 2018. More police = less crime.
Many other studies have listed the increase of crimes committed by Illegals as well as how widespread this is.

When it comes to border areas I'd first and foremost believe the mayors of those towns instead of politicians in DC.

Irrespective of opinions on the matter the fact remains that these are all criminals. If they are shipped from areas that don't want them to areas that do then there is absolutely no merit to this brouhaha over it.
Fact is the issue remains a convenient football to play around with in election years. Hopefully it annoys enough voters so that they will go and vote for change.

 

[Kieppie]

Geesh guy. The budget for FY2022 was left flat due to the surge in enforcement but also had additional discretionary allowances. As for 2023 draft released in mid-June 2022- "Fiscal Year 2023 Homeland Security Funding Bill - Subsection: U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) – The bill recommends $15.74 billion, an increase of $893.8 million above the FY 2022 enacted level and $338.1 million above the request"

That isn't much of an increase.

As for legislation - Trump and GOP had the opportunity and didn't with the majorities they had.

They had 52, they needed 60 to counter the filibuster.

 

[quovadis]

It is actually relevant, if it happens with normal migrants it will happen with illegals as well. Well gangs are actually a large part of the problem w.r.t. illegals, but the point was more to do with your chosen local for comparison.

How is it relevant to the statistics? We're comparing the national average to border towns. Forget the one town you have gang violence obsession with - it doesn't change the statistics in terms of the national comparison.

It's a meaningless argument. Even if you compare the crime statistics of the towns with themselves and compare it to spikes in illegal crossings, which is what one should do, it still does not account for the fact that the U.S. Border Patrol agents has grown nearly x3 between 1998 and 2018. More police = less crime.
Many other studies have listed the increase of crimes committed by Illegals as well as how widespread this is.

When it comes to border areas I'd first and foremost believe the mayors of those towns instead of politicians in DC.

Irrespective of opinions on the matter the fact remains that these are all criminals. If they are shipped from areas that don't want them to areas that do then there is absolutely no merit to this brouhaha over it.
Fact is the issue remains a convenient football to play around with in election years. Hopefully it annoys enough voters so that they will go and vote for change.

It's not meaningless. If you argue that migrants bring crime and issues with safety then the crime statistics would reflect that. As for your argument that all undocumented migrants are criminals they're committing very little crime then. And yes, voters were so annoyed Trump didn't get re-elected.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570936731100393474

 

[quovadis]

That isn't much of an increase.

Sure guy - close to a billion dollars increase is peanuts. The CBP budget alone is greater than most country's military budgets.

They had 52, they needed 60 to counter the filibuster.

Pity they couldn't whip up 8 more votes. That's on the GOP.