Using a decoy banking app to protect against kidnappers forcing you to empty your bank account

[Daniel Puchert]

Beating kidnappers who want to empty your bank account

Creating decoy apps, using a phone without banking apps in public, or keeping as much of your money as possible in an account with a notice period are some of the methods to protect against kidnappers forcing you to empty your bank account.

Insurers and private security companies have warned about the rise in so-called "express" kidnappings in the past year.

 

[konfab]

According to Fidelity ADT CEO Wahl Bartmann, South Africans should be vigilant about their personal safety at all times and take the following steps to avoid falling victim to kidnappers.

• Don’t be flashy with expensive jewellery and other items in public
• Vary your routines or periodically change travel routes
• Don’t engage with strangers
• Be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially when leaving and arriving at home
• Secure your home, particularly the perimeter, with electric fencing, proper lighting and CCTV
• If threatened, attract attention

* Have a cordless hole puncher on you at all times

 

[ebendl]

OK I do like the idea of the canary/fake app.

How does one actually use this?

EDIT: Nevermind, saw the page in the screenshot: https://canarytokens.org/nest/

 

[Dups!]

"The additional benefit of this option is that you will earn interest on funds kept in the Notice Deposit account.

If you urgently require access to more money, these accounts allow for an “early breakage” for a fee, but you will still only be able to get the funds the next day."

FNB's 32 day notice account allows you to withdraw immediately if you don't want to wait until the notice period is over.

Besides, who says the kidnappers won't keep you till the next day to get their money?

That advice is weird.

 

[Priapus]

Has this become so much of a problem in South Africa that you have to take these measures?

 

[Bryn]

The few times I've heard about kidnapping or missing person drama, it's blown my mind that the person couldn't be tracked effortlessly if their phone was likely with them.

The difference it makes to the situation is obviously life and death, and you're in SA ffs. So privacy concerns should take a backseat. If I go AWOL, several family members can instantly track my iPhone, Apple Watch, AirTag in my wallet, AirTag in my car, AirTag in my laptop bag etc. with the Find My app.

But also, if a business I want to go to is in a sus area, I just won't. I'll pay more for every little thing in my life if it means sticking to nicer areas or online orders. Even if I can still be kidnapped just fine, at least there's a private security presence that could react to my family's communications if they're fast enough, and it will take longer to drive to outlying areas.

Has this become so much of a problem in South Africa that you have to take these measures?

Yeah, crime is utterly insane man and hugely under-reported. Had a brief bit of interaction with the flying squad, Atlas and a community forum over a crime I witnessed and reported earlier this year. Three things were extremely alarming to me: the glacial pace that serious response units are able to be rustled up, Atlas's unwillingness to rapidly provide number plates from their cameras that were a few metres from the scene (demanded a case number initially), and learning from chats with the responders how many reports like mine are received every week for PE alone.

This place is a war zone. Get out when you can.

 

[Speedster]

Most phones have hidden folders nowadays too

 

[Priapus]

The few times I've heard about kidnapping or missing person drama, it's blown my mind that the person couldn't be tracked effortlessly if their phone was likely with them.

The difference it makes to the situation is obviously life and death, and you're in SA ffs. So privacy concerns should take a backseat. If I go AWOL, several family members can instantly track my iPhone, Apple Watch, AirTag in my wallet, AirTag in my car, AirTag in my laptop bag etc. with the Find My app.

But also, if a business I want to go to is in a sus area, I just won't. I'll pay more for every little thing in my life if it means sticking to nicer areas or online orders. Even if I can still be kidnapped just fine, at least there's a private security presence that could react to my family's communications if they're fast enough, and it will take longer to drive to outlying areas.


Yeah, crime is utterly insane man and hugely under-reported. Had a brief bit of interaction with the flying squad, Atlas and a community forum over a crime I witnessed and reported earlier this year. Three things were extremely alarming to me: the glacial pace that serious response units are able to be rustled up, Atlas's unwillingness to rapidly provide number plates from their cameras that were a few metres from the scene (demanded a case number initially), and learning from chats with the responders how many reports like mine are received every week for PE alone.

This place is a war zone. Get out when you can.

I did, three weeks ago. Now in UK.

But I’m not convinced this is a major issue in SA. Maybe it’s the underreporting.

 

[FiestaST]

Wise words:

 

[LCBXX]

Go cashless, they said. It is way more safe, secure and convenient, they said.

Now that people are getting literally robbed into poverty using cashless features, they say I should install decoy apps?

 

[Priapus]

Go cashless, they said. It is way more safe and secure, they said.

Now that people are getting literally robbed into poverty using cashless features, they said I should install decoy apps?

Like I say I’m not convinced this is a wide spread issue / new crime in SA.

 

[ebendl]

I know a guy at work who has personally had this happen to him.

He was visiting friends out late one night. Got hijacked and forced to drive to an FNB ATM. Forced to open his phone and log into the banking app.

He was forced to take out loans on his phone (you know those annoying "instant personal loan" ads that FNB pushes out when you open the app? He was forced to get all of them), forced to EFT money to other accounts, forced to buy airtime, forced to do eWallet transfers and forced to withdraw the max amount from his account. He was forced to transfer money from his bond to his checque account to fund all of this. He was forced to accept any terms and conditions and any warnings that the app popped up (like temporarily increasing his limits).

He was then kept by the guys until past midnight so that the daily limits reset and they could go at it again.

The guys knew what they were doing and then, after the withdrew everything they could, he was dropped off somewhere.

He had massive fights with FNB to try and get everything back, and I don't think he got everything in the end.

He was super frustrated because why can't any bank fraud detection system pick up these types of irregularities? E.g. he's never done these types of things, in quick succession, after one another, in the middle of the night, spread over two days. Surely some abnormality detection system can kick in?

He isn't married and lives by himself, so no, nobody came "looking for him" late at night.

 

[LCBXX]

I know a guy at work who has personally had this happen to him.

He was visiting friends out late one night. Got hijacked and forced to drive to an FNB ATM. Forced to open his phone and log into the banking app.

He was forced to take out loans on his phone (you know those annoying "instant personal loan" ads that FNB pushes out when you open the app? He was forced to get all of them), forced to EFT money to other accounts, forced to buy airtime, forced to do eWallet transfers and forced to withdraw the max amount from his account. He was forced to transfer money from his bond to his checque account to fund all of this. He was forced to accept any terms and conditions and any warnings that the app popped up (like temporarily increasing his limits).

He was then kept by the guys until past midnight so that the daily limits reset and they could go at it again.

The guys knew what they were doing and then, after the withdrew everything they could, he was dropped off somewhere.

He had massive fights with FNB to try and get everything back, and I don't think he got everything in the end.

He was super frustrated because why can't any bank fraud detection system pick up these types of irregularities? E.g. he's never done these types of things, in quick succession, after one another, in the middle of the night, spread over two days. Surely some abnormality detection system can kick in?

He isn't married and lives by himself, so no, nobody came "looking for him" late at night.

Has he started to process of acquiring a licenced firearm?

 

[The Darkness]

The few times I've heard about kidnapping or missing person drama, it's blown my mind that the person couldn't be tracked effortlessly if their phone was likely with them.

The difference it makes to the situation is obviously life and death, and you're in SA ffs. So privacy concerns should take a backseat. If I go AWOL, several family members can instantly track my iPhone, Apple Watch, AirTag in my wallet, AirTag in my car, AirTag in my laptop bag etc. with the Find My app.

But also, if a business I want to go to is in a sus area, I just won't. I'll pay more for every little thing in my life if it means sticking to nicer areas or online orders. Even if I can still be kidnapped just fine, at least there's a private security presence that could react to my family's communications if they're fast enough, and it will take longer to drive to outlying areas.


Yeah, crime is utterly insane man and hugely under-reported. Had a brief bit of interaction with the flying squad, Atlas and a community forum over a crime I witnessed and reported earlier this year. Three things were extremely alarming to me: the glacial pace that serious response units are able to be rustled up, Atlas's unwillingness to rapidly provide number plates from their cameras that were a few metres from the scene (demanded a case number initially), and learning from chats with the responders how many reports like mine are received every week for PE alone.

This place is a war zone. Get out when you can.

These syndicates are extremely organised. A friend of mine was recently kidnapped and held for ransom. They were out hiking in the hills. There phones were turned off, and the only communications came from other phones. The kidnappers never knew their potential wealth, and just came through with a number they wanted. It took over a week for the SIU to negotiate and get them back safely.
But yes, the other form is where they could potentially have access to your phone and see your bank balances. Ideally, one should the bulk of your wealth invested and not accessible via apps on a phone. I have only a few banks from different companies with only certain v-cards loaded for apple pay, and then everything else one would need to liaise with a private banker/investment advisor.
The worst part of all of this is that it's unsafe to go anywhere in SA.

 

[The Darkness]

I know a guy at work who has personally had this happen to him.

He was visiting friends out late one night. Got hijacked and forced to drive to an FNB ATM. Forced to open his phone and log into the banking app.

He was forced to take out loans on his phone (you know those annoying "instant personal loan" ads that FNB pushes out when you open the app? He was forced to get all of them), forced to EFT money to other accounts, forced to buy airtime, forced to do eWallet transfers and forced to withdraw the max amount from his account. He was forced to transfer money from his bond to his checque account to fund all of this. He was forced to accept any terms and conditions and any warnings that the app popped up (like temporarily increasing his limits).

He was then kept by the guys until past midnight so that the daily limits reset and they could go at it again.

The guys knew what they were doing and then, after the withdrew everything they could, he was dropped off somewhere.

He had massive fights with FNB to try and get everything back, and I don't think he got everything in the end.

He was super frustrated because why can't any bank fraud detection system pick up these types of irregularities? E.g. he's never done these types of things, in quick succession, after one another, in the middle of the night, spread over two days. Surely some abnormality detection system can kick in?

He isn't married and lives by himself, so no, nobody came "looking for him" late at night.

How terrifying. 2 phones is the answer here. A burner with only a 'spending' account from a bank that's only used for your spending money. No need to be able to access your bond at any point. Keep the other device locked in the safe.

 

[lotus123]

The few times I've heard about kidnapping or missing person drama, it's blown my mind that the person couldn't be tracked effortlessly if their phone was likely with them.

The difference it makes to the situation is obviously life and death, and you're in SA ffs. So privacy concerns should take a backseat. If I go AWOL, several family members can instantly track my iPhone, Apple Watch, AirTag in my wallet, AirTag in my car, AirTag in my laptop bag etc. with the Find My app.

But also, if a business I want to go to is in a sus area, I just won't. I'll pay more for every little thing in my life if it means sticking to nicer areas or online orders. Even if I can still be kidnapped just fine, at least there's a private security presence that could react to my family's communications if they're fast enough, and it will take longer to drive to outlying areas.


Yeah, crime is utterly insane man and hugely under-reported. Had a brief bit of interaction with the flying squad, Atlas and a community forum over a crime I witnessed and reported earlier this year. Three things were extremely alarming to me: the glacial pace that serious response units are able to be rustled up, Atlas's unwillingness to rapidly provide number plates from their cameras that were a few metres from the scene (demanded a case number initially), and learning from chats with the responders how many reports like mine are received every week for PE alone.

This place is a war zone. Get out when you can.

Agree about PE. I was attacked near Richmond Hill last week by a couple of guys. Fought back, recovered my backpack and chased them off, but got thoroughly hit by pepper spray they were using. I was delighted to see (from security camera footage) that the one with the pepper spray dosed himself as well.

 

[DapperDanMan]

He was super frustrated because why can't any bank fraud detection system pick up these types of irregularities? E.g. he's never done these types of things, in quick succession, after one another, in the middle of the night, spread over two days. Surely some abnormality detection system can kick in?

Perhaps FNB simply assumed that he had turned over a new leaf?

 

[FiestaST]

Fark me, this thread reads like the Wild Wild West. In June into July I was a solid month away in US & Canada & did extensive exploring with public transport & I promise you zero “bad vibes” of anything! No shoulder looking! Heck it was “weird” to use your phone so openly! I was so cautious of my bag, no need to be!

This mother effin country, I miss the olden days

 

[Dups!]

Some of us have had the misfortune of losing a family member to these animals.

He was kidnapped, his bank account emptied and then murdered. Happened in 2021.

His car was never recovered. The killers were fortunately arrested, not a consolation at all... will never bring him back.

The torture they put him through is just unbearable and unimaginable. It was revealed that they went as far as drugging him.

I hate what this country has become.

 

[airborne]

Is there anyway to hide an app on iOS, including hiding it from searches and also the fact that the app hidden is also hidden?
It’s pointless hiding an app or putting it in a secure folder if it can be discerned that an app is being hidden because they will just force you to reveal what the app is.