vaccination side effects

[DreamKing]

There are positive benefits.

do you accept that the vaccine may have negative side effects?
if you don't accept that then you don't need to read the following, if you do, continue.

any side effect that may cause to me, after my serious consideration, I take that possible side effects. my choice.

if you force me to take the vaccine and then I have those side effects, but that is not my choice, who is going to compensate me? who is liable? me? why?

 

[Arthur]

Besides the cutthroat, let the vulnerable rot, idea is not itself a morally good idea.

Then why support laws (mandates) that do exactly that to those who choose to carry the covid risk themselves? The mandates marginalise those who don't conform, rob them of livelihood, and otherwise place huge burdens on them. Pleading love of humanity sounds rather hollow in this case.

As to the social cost of risky behaviour, by your arguments above I presume you also support legal and social sanctions against those who have tuberculosis, or HIV, or ordinary influenza, who excessively drink alcohol, or who have unhealthy diets? Where do you stop?

 

[Mirai]

All good points.

Still won't take it lol.

I think the nature of this thing is nuanced. And so it depends how people weigh different things and consider different evidence. I think people can reasonably argue either side of the median here, as with a treble or bass slider on a HiFi system.

 

[Mirai]

Then why support laws (mandates) that do exactly that to those who choose to carry the covid risk themselves? The mandates marginalise those who don't conform, rob them of livelihood, and otherwise place huge burdens on them. Pleading love of humanity sounds rather hollow in this case.

As to the social cost of risky behaviour, by your arguments above I presume you also support legal and social sanctions against those who have tuberculosis, or HIV, or ordinary influenza, who excessively drink alcohol, or who have unhealthy diets? Where do you stop?

Arthur, I think there are such restrictions against people who have TB in the States. TB in the States is treated almost like Ebola. Forget the SA hospitals where you have possible TB patients in waiting rooms next to people with gastro. It's unthinkable for a US doctor or nurse to see a TB patient, even on treatment, without full PPE.
In SA we assume, two weeks on treatment, they're probably non infectious. I don't think they think that way in the 1st World.

Obesity, alcoholism are not infectious. But we do restrict smoking for sure, so as to avoid non-smokers having to inhale cigarette fumes.

Life insurance or disability insurance programs already take into account one's pre-existing conditions.

Medical aids already penalise people who start to pay for medical aid late. Even if these people lived overseas, they get shafted because they still have to pay for the time they foreign residents or stayed most of the year out of the country and only came to SA for Christmas.

If Influenza was of the sort of 1918 we'd also have strict restrictions.

Taking peoples' livelihoods is not a good thing. But people also can't be silly. People are scared that a vaccine which causes limited replication of spike protein in muscle cells is dangerous, but a Covid-19 infection where unrestricted replication of the whole SARS-CoV-2 genome and all of its proteins occurs all over the body is OK.
This makes no sense. If the vaccine is dangerous than the virus is exponentially more so.

 

[Mirai]

do you accept that the vaccine may have negative side effects?
if you don't accept that then you don't need to read the following, if you do, continue.

any side effect that may cause to me, after my serious consideration, I take that possible side effects. my choice.

if you force me to take the vaccine and then I have those side effects, but that is not my choice, who is going to compensate me? who is liable? me? why?

Do you understand that leaving your home can have negative side effects?

Do you understand that the restaurant you eat at, someone could have put some raw chicken in the salad and you could get a Campylobacter jejuni infection and then get flaccid paralysis aka GBS and die often from that?
(Not even that, they could have not washed their hands properly and then handled your salad.)

Life is full of risk. But if the vaccine is dangerous then Covid-19 is way more so. If people are terrified of restricted muscle spike protein replication that why be comfortable with way more replication of the whole SARS-CoV-2 virus all over the body?

Yes putting on a seat belt can be dangerous. Do you know that you can tear your aorta and die from that in a car accident because you wore a seat belt?

This is cherry picking, mate.

 

[Solarion]

If you think you may be at risk of serious illness from covid-19 such as preexisting medical conditions or smoking etc then sure, get the vaccine. But don't expect everyone else to take the vaccine for you to protect you.

This is the same as expecting others to wear a hard hat or put on their seat belts to protect you in the case of an accident when you have not done the same. It's ludicrous and downright idiotic.

This is the type of logic behind vaccine mandates.

 

[DreamKing]

Do you understand that leaving your home can have negative side effects?

don't be BS. that comparison is weird. come back to the question what I am asking. who is going to take the responsibility for the side effects when I am forced by you / government? I am leaving my home that is obviously I am taking my own responsibility for that action. who should take that responsibility?

answer the question directly, be a man. who is going to take the responsibility for the side effects?

 

[Mirai]

don't be BS. that comparison is weird. come back to the question what I am asking. who is going to take the responsibility for the side effects when I am forced by you / government? I am leaving my home that is obviously I am taking my own responsibility for that action. who should take that responsibility?

answer the question directly, be a man. who is going to take the responsibility for the side effects?

You are. The way when you go to a dentist and you have an idiosyncratic reaction to the local. Or when you get in your car to buy beer and you have a crash. The way when you go to see your GP, the guy next to you is less likely to be there because of covid or pass it on to you, or you to him. Or when you don't get sick and have to take sick leave, your colleagues don't have to stress more because you're not at work and their life expectancy goes up.

 

[Aghori]

It's pretty well established by now that after a few months the current crop of covid vaccines don't stop you from getting infected. Nor do they stop you from infecting others.

In the light of this indisputable reality, it's not unreasonable to ask just what health objectives the vax mandates are intending to accomplish.

In my view, it is better for society overall if we leave the responsibility for bearing the consequences of risk with those who actually run the risk, rather than trying to socialise the liabilities and costs. Liberty is a precious and fragile flower. It's loss is extremely deleterious to not just individuals but to society at large. I prefer we err on the side of liberty rather than safety. Which is why I oppose drug laws, laws banning substances and ideas, speed limit laws, even seatbelt laws. Note I oppose the law mandating seatbelts, not seatbelts themselves. Etc.

Hook me up with some good stuff will ya?

 

[DreamKing]

You are.

oh dear, if so, why I need to listen to your BS? laughable.

 

[DreamKing]

Myocarditis after vaccination, firm data​

 

[Arthur]

Hook me up with some good stuff will ya?

Sure.

Try this as a gateway drug to this.

 

[DreamKing]

B: I got flu ...
A: I can solve your problem, but you have to trust me absolutely, let me push you down the slope then you will be fine.
B: but I will get hurt or die, are sure I will be fine?
A: you know, only 0.001% of people may get hurt, most of the people I pushed them down the hill they are fine.
B: you will take responsibility if I got hurt?
A: no you are the only one to take responsibility, I can't be held any responsibility even you died afterward, you know people die everyday.
B: oh ... no thanks
A: NO!!! that is mandatory, but I still won't be held any responsibility......

 

[Mirai]

oh dear, if so, why I need to listen to your BS? laughable.

You live in a society. You are responsible to yourself and others.

If you want the economy to be messed up, you or your children will suffer the consequences. It's plain and simple.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Most people realise this.

 

[Mirai]

B: I got flu ...
A: I can solve your problem, but you have to trust me absolutely, let me push you down the slope then you will be fine.
B: but I will get hurt or die, are sure I will be fine?
A: you know, only 0.001% of people may get hurt, most of the people I pushed them down the hill they are fine.
B: you will take responsibility if I got hurt?
A: no you are the only one to take responsibility, I can't be held any responsibility even you died afterward, you know people die everyday.
B: oh ... no thanks
A: NO!!! that is mandatory, but I still won't be held any responsibility......

Yeah it's mandatory the way that if you don't work you don't eat. Do you think beggars on street corners have it well? You think they have a great life expectancy? But to work you need to put your life at risk. Oh those hours studying, so unhealthy. All those stressful exams and interviews. All those hazards in the workplace. Never mind that many jobs are hazardous. You drive a car. Someone had to build that refinery in Saudi Arabia and work in terrible conditions. Someone else had to make sure it was built well. Someone else has to operate it.

You think life is some sort of dream where only good things happen and you bear no responsibility?

Every time you go joy riding you put your and others' lives at risk. So if you crash, even if it was an unavoidable accident but you crash, should you also be held responsible because your journey wasn't to work or to get a life saving surgery but to get meat for your braai? Bad things happen. With vaccines their likelihood drops in this era of covid, directly and indirectly. Economy goes back to normal faster. Maybe you get less sick if you get covid.

The ovewhelming balance of good vs bad in vaccines is for the good. If one is afraid of vaccines one should also be afraid of so many other things. Just because you scrutinize vaccines because some fools are doing that, does not mean all things you do are safe. If you take the time to be just as scrupulous in analyzing your activities you will find they're more dangerous than any vaccine and yet you never considered that an issue.

 

[DreamKing]

You live in a society. You are responsible to yourself and others.

If you want the economy to be messed up, you or your children will suffer the consequences. It's plain and simple.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Most people realise this.

I take my responsibility if that is my decision.

you and leftists did that. don't blame other people.

 

[DreamKing]

Yeah it's mandatory the way that if you don't work you don't eat. Do you think beggars on street corners have it well? You think they have a great life expectancy? But to work you need to put your life at risk. Oh those hours studying, so unhealthy. All those stressful exams and interviews. All those hazards in the workplace. Never mind that many jobs are hazardous. You drive a car. Someone had to build that refinery in Saudi Arabia and work in terrible conditions. Someone else had to make sure it was built well. Someone else has to operate it.

You think life is some sort of dream where only good things happen and you bear no responsibility?

Every time you go joy riding you put your and others' lives at risk. So if you crash, even if it was an unavoidable accident but you crash, should you also be held responsible because your journey wasn't to work or to get a life saving surgery but to get meat for your braai? Bad things happen. With vaccines their likelihood drops in this era of covid, directly and indirectly. Economy goes back to normal faster. Maybe you get less sick of if you get covid.

let me kick you down to the slope.

btw, do you know that your example is terrible?

 

[Mirai]

I take my responsibility if that is my decision.

you and leftists did that. don't blame other people.

An adult knows that one's decision is usually made for one. There are very few really free decisions one makes and even fewer informed ones.

This is not about left or right.

 

[Mirai]

let me kick you down to the slope.

btw, do you know that your example is terrible?

I don't mind that you disagree. I'm just stating it rationally. You can agree or disagree.

 

[DreamKing]

An adult knows that one's decision is usually made for one.

so if I order you to murder a person, I won't be held responsibility?

There are very few really free decisions one makes and even fewer informed ones.

we called is "communism."

This is not about left or right.

I just can tell you that is "WRONG".