vaccination side effects

[Daveogg]

but if its not correct, then they dont know what they are doing. which then relates to other stuff they do..

gore said in feb they recon 50%,

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

august over 80%

Ok so you accept 90% of excess mortality is Covid infection ( not Covid related ) and a case fatality rate derived from data in Europe and USA is applicable to SA.

As I said I hope they are right, just my gut says otherwise. Anecdotal but when patients ask me to check antibodies because " doc I must have had it " most often they are negative. But then again I am only seeing a small slice of SA population not representative.

 

[flytek]

The bloid bank data backs up the Discovery claim in my opiniin. They could of ciurse both be wrong. The blood bank said 47% of their samples had antibodies and this was before delta which was the largest wave. Crudely alpha hit 20%, beta a further 30% and then delta another 30%. Reinfections are low and not climbing fast. Then 30% of the remainder are vaccinated out of which the at higher risk are vaccinated to an even higher percentage.

In the majority medical aid population these estimates would be optomistic as that population just has more space. Space to live in, work in, travel in and entertain in. Space reduces their chance of infection.

Yes there is therefor space for a significant wave in this sector of the population but they will be harder to infect due to their natural social distancing and the fact of the rest of the population being difficult to reinfect. In this wealthier sector those that have not been infected and are at risk should seriously consider vaccination.

 

[Daveogg]

The bloid bank data backs up the Discovery claim in my opiniin. They could of ciurse both be wrong. The blood bank said 47% of their samples had antibodies and this was before delta which was the largest wave. Crudely alpha hit 20%, beta a further 30% and then delta another 30%. Reinfections are low and not climbing fast. Then 30% of the remainder are vaccinated out of which the at higher risk are vaccinated to an even higher percentage.

In the majority medical aid population these estimates would be optomistic as that population just has more space. Space to live in, work in, travel in and entertain in. Space reduces their chance of infection.

Yes there is therefor space for a significant wave in this sector of the population but they will be harder to infect due to their natural social distancing and the fact of the rest of the population being difficult to reinfect. In this wealthier sector those that have not been infected and are at risk should seriously consider vaccination.

Time will tell, at the moment the evidence certainly is pointing to your side of the argument. I hope that continues.

 

[access]

Ok so you accept 90% of excess mortality is Covid infection ( not Covid related ) and a case fatality rate derived from data in Europe and USA is applicable to SA.

As I said I hope they are right, just my gut says otherwise. Anecdotal but when patients ask me to check antibodies because " doc I must have had it " most often they are negative. But then again I am only seeing a small slice of SA population not representative.

i was not having a go at you, i just listed where the info came from. that dude in the vid seemed rather confident.

i think the excess mortality rate that is shown on those graphs look a bit cooked. its just a "flat" line for deaths throughout the year. why no seasonal deaths, disease or holiday related? thats not right. its difficult to find certain information around this to compare for yourself instead of just accepting what someone else says. annoyingly, information on previous years is easy to come by.

yes you are right in a way, good for the goose and all that. not everything covid related is marked as such, but in that same breath things not covid related are being marked as covid. i have no idea if one is as much as the other. how would guestimates cancel each other out.

global influenza numbers are guessed every year, stated on cdc or fda or who, one of them. simply because its not always tested for or even noticed they said. i assume this practice took a bit of a back seat last year.

imo, if this this is so contagious as they make it out to be, it should have spread through us all by now, unless you live like a hermit, which not a lot of people do. i feel sorry for some people so petrified about their medical conditions and covid that they live like hermits. stress must be taking lives too come to think of it.


so many "measures" in day to day life that just do not make sense and when you look at the practical application it actually makes things worse, not better.


i am leaning towards it has spread farther/more and yes the true death rate can be added to, but i also think deducted from.

 

[Grant]

In this wealthier sector those that have not been infected and are at risk should seriously consider vaccination.

I live in what is described as an affluent area. I'm finding many of the more wealthy folk suffer delusions of entitlement & much that's going on is beneath them.
Many are the very same who have been vaccinated now tend to ignore the usual precautions, thinking of themselves only - and possibly little concerned they can pass on this virus to the next person.

 

[MoHaG]

The bloid bank data backs up the Discovery claim in my opiniin. They could of ciurse both be wrong. The blood bank said 47% of their samples had antibodies and this was before delta which was the largest wave. Crudely alpha hit 20%, beta a further 30% and then delta another 30%. Reinfections are low and not climbing fast. Then 30% of the remainder are vaccinated out of which the at higher risk are vaccinated to an even higher percentage.

https://sanbs.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/UPDATED-ESTIMATES-OF-THE-PREVALENCE-OF-SARS-COV-2-ANTIBODIES-AMONG-BLOOD-DONORS-IN-SOUTH-AFRICA.pdf

Depending on where... It would be interesting to see how it looks now. (And how much overlap there is with vaccinations)

The data on how well previous infection works and how long it lasts is mixed, It seems to be highly variable, some data shows better results. (there also seems to be an effect with the severity of disease (at least less immunity for the asymptomatic)) (There is data that vaccination (even one dose) after infection hugely increase immunity) (Many of the arguments against recognising previous infection (which the EU does) for immunity passports is logistics (it is easier and cheaper to vaccinate everyone than figure out who was previously infected), It is also not know what levels of immune markers correspond to how much protection (there seems to be indications that certain antibody levels correlate with protection against infection, severe disease seems less clear))

 

[MoHaG]

i think the excess mortality rate that is shown on those graphs look a bit cooked. its just a "flat" line for deaths throughout the year. why no seasonal deaths, disease or holiday related? thats not right. its difficult to find certain information around this to compare for yourself instead of just accepting what someone else says. annoyingly, information on previous years is easy to come by.

The flat line is the average (it already incorporates the seasonal variations) (the flat base is the average deaths for the equivalent week between 2014 and 2019)

The SAMRC's baseline is in here

 

[Geoff.D]

global influenza numbers are guessed every year,

Not everywhere. The figures are based on surveillance measures, as done for example by the NICD, and the statistically applied to the entire population precisely because it is not possible or justified to "test" everyone. This silly idea of testing and testing and testing has only taken root because of this epidemic.

Look at the NICD surveillance reports over a number of years to get a feel for the prevalence of flu in SA.

 

[access]

The flat line is the average (it already incorporates the seasonal variations) (the flat base is the average deaths for the equivalent week between 2014 and 2019)

The SAMRC's baseline is in here

yes i know this, which is what i am wondering about.

covid death is as is, but excess death is averaged. i would think you compare averages with averages etc.

thanks for the link i have not seen that one yet. similar to others ive read a bit.

i see this one explains them changing their methodology of excess deaths in 2020

Not everywhere. The figures are based on surveillance measures, as done for example by the NICD, and the statistically applied to the entire population precisely because it is not possible or justified to "test" everyone. This silly idea of testing and testing and testing has only taken root because of this epidemic.

Look at the NICD surveillance reports over a number of years to get a feel for the prevalence of flu in SA.

yes im just mentioning what i read on one of those sites. i think it was the who.

ive read various reports to try and get an idea of whats going on. burden of disease reports is what got me looking at these things.

 

[lumeer]

Vaccines don't cause side affects. Is there even such a thing as a side affect?

 

[flytek]

https://sanbs.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/UPDATED-ESTIMATES-OF-THE-PREVALENCE-OF-SARS-COV-2-ANTIBODIES-AMONG-BLOOD-DONORS-IN-SOUTH-AFRICA.pdf

Depending on where... It would be interesting to see how it looks now. (And how much overlap there is with vaccinations)

The data on how well previous infection works and how long it lasts is mixed, It seems to be highly variable, some data shows better results. (there also seems to be an effect with the severity of disease (at least less immunity for the asymptomatic)) (There is data that vaccination (even one dose) after infection hugely increase immunity) (Many of the arguments against recognising previous infection (which the EU does) for immunity passports is logistics (it is easier and cheaper to vaccinate everyone than figure out who was previously infected), It is also not know what levels of immune markers correspond to how much protection (there seems to be indications that certain antibody levels correlate with protection against infection, severe disease seems less clear))

Agreed it would be interesting to have some more current blood bank data.
However releasing such data is counterproductive to the current narrative which is to try jab everyone and everything that moves every 6 months.
If one looks at the cases graph carefully even with a 'skat met die oog' approach even 80% previously infected could be conservative.
Vaccine overlap is fairly simple...30% vaccinated in total should hold true for the previously infected and never infected populations although it seems likely that the never infected on average wealthier are also the more highly vaccinated.
30% vaccinated in the never infected group is therefor likely also conservative.

If one looks at the western cape dashboard one can see 523500 infections of which 6738 were reinfections.
However we can estimate the real infection rate with detectable antibodies at more like 80% of the 7million total population ie 5 600 000 infections.
Detection rate of an infection vs the reality is then 523 500/5 600 000 ie 9.3%. of infections got detected.
Again crudely we could apply the detection rate to the reinfection rate to determine a more accurate reinfection rate. (6738/523 500)/0.093 = 13.8% reinfection rate.
Obviously all very rough and skewed this way or that by how reinfection data was collected etc.
Funny how numbers like these are so hard to find and barely mentioned in the public discourse.

If the reinfection rate is so low that gives hope that a previous infection is pretty good at preventing reinfection...seemingly much more so than vaccination.
How good previous infections are at preventing death is not clear but if they are so good at preventing reinfection that seems encouraging.
I guess if antibodies fall far enough in natural and vaccine acquired populations a reinfection will top you up as would a vaccine.
The truths will only come out in the future and by then mutations will have made historical data outdated...so as daveogg accurately said only time will tell.

 

[lumeer]

I live in what is described as an affluent area. I'm finding many of the more wealthy folk suffer delusions of entitlement & much that's going on is beneath them.
Many are the very same who have been vaccinated now tend to ignore the usual precautions, thinking of themselves only - and possibly little concerned they can pass on this virus to the next person.

Can it not be argued that by now, everybody who wants to have gotten vaccinated, could have been, and the rest must accept the risks of not being vaccinated?

 

[access]

Vaccines don't cause side affects. Is there even such a thing as a side affect?

side effects maybe... ?

psyde effex!

 

[lumeer]

side effects maybe... ?

psyde effex!

Maybe a side affect is a fancy term for emotional cycling or dissociation?

 

[access]

Maybe a side affect is a fancy term for emotional cycling or dissociation?

lol

how the wife responds to the skelmpie, the "side affect"

 

[notayoba]

Can it not be argued that by now, everybody who wants to have gotten vaccinated, could have been, and the rest must accept the risks of not being vaccinated?

That's my feeling. Stop government sponsored vaccines. If you haven't gotten it by now, you can pay for it yourself later.

 

[lunch]

Had to go back 3 pages to find someone actually talking about side effects

 

[PsyWulf]

Had to go back 3 pages to find someone actually talking about side effects

Because they are so scarce

 

[Dave]

I live in what is described as an affluent area. I'm finding many of the more wealthy folk suffer delusions of entitlement & much that's going on is beneath them.
Many are the very same who have been vaccinated now tend to ignore the usual precautions, thinking of themselves only - and possibly little concerned they can pass on this virus to the next person.

Devils advocate argument would be why should they care about covidiots and ivmorons who are acting like retards and refusing the vaccine?

 

[Grant]

Devils advocate argument would be why should they care about covidiots and ivmorons who are acting like retards and refusing the vaccine?

I'll give you an example, many of these ppl are going in and out of places like apartment buildings, and using elevators without wearing a mask - not too bright an idea for enclosed areas with limited ventilation