vaccination side effects

[Daveogg]

Actually no, I use the Age-specific rate per 100 000 from Tables 3 and 4 for all these graphs including the one you refer to as OP.

Fair enough, I see flytek alluded to this earlier:


I agree that smaller age-groups are needed. What we are seeing is that in the 60-69 and 70-79 the all cause mortality rate is lower in vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups. Good news for sure.

Of course if we stratify the ages in 10 year increments from 10-59 then it cannot be true that ALL of them will also have an all-cause mortality rate that is lower in vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups.

This implies that there should be at least one ten-year increment (between 10-59) that has an all-cause mortality rate that is greater in vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups to explain the higher rate we see in the 10-59 group.

I hope they include these age stratifications in the next dataset.

"I hope they include these age stratifications in the next dataset."

They wont, if you are interested here is the methodology.

Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status, England - Office for National Statistics

Age-standardised mortality rates for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) by vaccination status, broken down by age group. Deaths occurring between 1 April 2021 and 31 December 2022 in England.

www.ons.gov.uk

"This implies that there should be at least one ten-year increment (between 10-59) that has an all-cause mortality rate that is greater in vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups to explain the higher rate we see in the 10-59 group.

Nope I don't think so.

 

[Daveogg]

Or people who are already frail/sick, especially the older ones don't get the vaccine to reduce futher stress on their body vs mostly healthy people who can get the vaccines?

Lol you quote me, then edit out the part of my post directly alluding to this in the data set, to stimulate debate.

 

[Seven_Nine_Eight]

So can we conclude the answer to your original question is no?

The observation is that the all-cause mortality is higher in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people for ages between 10-59. And that is all we can say at the moment.

 

[Seven_Nine_Eight]

"I hope they include these age stratifications in the next dataset."

They wont, if you are interested here is the methodology.

Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status, England - Office for National Statistics

Age-standardised mortality rates for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) by vaccination status, broken down by age group. Deaths occurring between 1 April 2021 and 31 December 2022 in England.

www.ons.gov.uk

Sadly yes, they probably won't.

"This implies that there should be at least one ten-year increment (between 10-59) that has an all-cause mortality rate that is greater in vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups to explain the higher rate we see in the 10-59 group.

Nope I don't think so.

I'd love to see a dataset whereby:
1) The all cause mortality rate for ages between 10-59 is HIGHER in vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
2) The all cause mortality rate for ALL the 10-year increments between 10-59 is LOWER in vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

 

[Daveogg]

The observation is that the all-cause mortality is higher in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people for ages between 10-59. And that is all we can say at the moment.

We can say that but we need to add, without adjusting for age and sex, discussing mortality rates in an age bracket 10-59 is pointless, unless you simple want to further an agenda by duping people who don't have the cognitive ability to understand the statistics.

 

[Aasvoël]

Lol you quote me, then edit out the part of my post directly alluding to this in the data set, to stimulate debate.

I re-read and re-read your post? Where do you allude to this? I'm picking up stompies here so maybe in a previous post?

 

[Seven_Nine_Eight]

We can say that but we need to add, without adjusting for age and sex, discussing mortality rates in an age bracket 10-59 is pointless, unless you simple want to further an agenda by duping people who don't have the cognitive ability to understand the statistics.

I wouldn't say it is pointless. It is simple to understand that in the 10-59 age bracket there is some subgroup (be it a certain age or sex or whatever) where all-cause mortality is higher in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people and we need to understand why this is the case.

 

[Daveogg]

I wouldn't say it is pointless. It is simple to understand that in the 10-59 age bracket there is some subgroup (be it a certain age or sex or whatever) where all-cause mortality is higher in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people and we need to understand why this is the case.

Its not simple to understand, its simple to be wrong.

	Mortality Vac	Pop Vacc	Deaths Vac	Mortality UnVac	Pop UnVac	Deaths UnVac
10-19	0.90%	1000	9.00	1.00%	100000	1000
20-29	1.80%	25000	450.00	2.00%	75000	1500
30-39	2.70%	50000	1,350.00	3.00%	50000	1500
40-49	3.60%	75000	2,700.00	4.00%	25000	1000
50-59	4.50%	100000	4,500.00	5.00%	1000	50
			9,009.00			5050

 

[Hush9300]

We can say that but we need to add, without adjusting for age and sex, discussing mortality rates in an age bracket 10-59 is pointless, unless you simple want to further an agenda by duping people who don't have the cognitive ability to understand the statistics.

There is a rather simple way to remove this bias. Just compare all cause mortality for all ages 2020 vs 2021...

 

[Seven_Nine_Eight]

Its not simple to understand, its simple to be wrong.

	Mortality Vac	Pop Vacc	Deaths Vac	Mortality UnVac	Pop UnVac	Deaths UnVac
10-19	0.90%	1000	9.00	1.00%	100000	1000
20-29	1.80%	25000	450.00	2.00%	75000	1500
30-39	2.70%	50000	1,350.00	3.00%	50000	1500
40-49	3.60%	75000	2,700.00	4.00%	25000	1000
50-59	4.50%	100000	4,500.00	5.00%	1000	50
			9,009.00			5050

Fair enough, I see what you mean now. It is likely that there is no subgroup with increased all-cause mortality in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people in the 10-59 group.

 

[Daveogg]

I re-read and re-read your post? Where do you allude to this? I'm picking up stompies here so maybe in a previous post?

When you quoted me you deleted this bit?

"EDIT:

See the group with the lowest mortality is those who received the second dose of vaccine less than 21 days ago at 464.6.
I could use this fact to prove vaccine are safe as the people who just received it DONT die. But I wont because that would be lying with statistics. Anyone care to explain why?"

 

[Daveogg]

There is a rather simple way to remove this bias. Just compare all cause mortality for all ages 2020 vs 2021...

So the only difference between 2020 and 2021 is vaccination?
I fear you are entering a rabbit hole of confounding variables of which their may be no return.

 

[Hush9300]

So the only difference between 2020 and 2021 is vaccination?
I fear you are entering a rabbit hole of confounding variables of which their may be no return.

There are always going to be confounders but if we're to assume that these vaccines save lives then at bare minimum mortality year on year (2020 vs 2021) should be reduced. Would that not be a reasonable expectation?

I'm sure you've heard the news... Deaths galore, bodies in bags, bodies in vans, hospitals bursting at the seam all due to Covid.

 

[BTTB]

How would you know if you had/have blood clots?

The previous poster was trolling about blood clots or it was meant to be tongue in cheek, either way not in good taste in my view.

 

[Daveogg]

There are always going to be confounders but if we're to assume that these vaccines save lives then at bare minimum mortality year on year (2020 vs 2021) should be reduced. Would that not be a reasonable expectation?

I'm sure you've heard the news... Deaths galore, bodies in bags, bodies in vans, hospitals bursting at the seam all due to Covid.

Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec			Ave
56704	43650	49723	88141	52363	42614	40778	37184	42494	46282	51317	56672	Total(2020 + JAn,Feb, Mar 2021)	788628	52575.2
73315	58767	48624	41513	37864	41223	43264	43151	47520	46511			Rest 2021	301046	43006

 

[Herr der Verboten]

The previous poster was trolling about blood clots or it was meant to be tongue in cheek, either way not in good taste in my view.

I can obviously just google it but was a genuine question.

 

[SoldierMan]

I can obviously just google it but was a genuine question.

Dude, you're 99.5% never genuine on MyBB, this is a unique day indeed....... are you sick?

 

[Hush9300]

Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec			Ave
56704	43650	49723	88141	52363	42614	40778	37184	42494	46282	51317	56672	Total(2020 + JAn,Feb, Mar 2021)	788628	52575.2
73315	58767	48624	41513	37864	41223	43264	43151	47520	46511			Rest 2021	301046	43006

No. Just no... You talk about manipulating statistics to further an agenda yet you blatantly do the same.

Jan - October 2020 = 499,933
Jan - October 2021 = 524,975

The UK started vaccinations in the second week of December 2020. The vaccine has made no dent whatsoever on all cause mortality. None.

Covid was apparently 2020's great killer, yet the introduction of a highly effective vaccine has done nothing to arrest this trend.

There are much simpler explanations than all this mental gymnastics:

1. Covid was and continues to pick off the vulnerable, even post vaccination or;
2. Covid wasn't that deadly to begin with or;
3. If vaccine is so effective, all cause parity is a result of vaccine injury

My money is on 1 and 2.

 

[Geoff.D]

There are much simpler explanations than all this mental gymnastics:

1. Covid was and continues to pick off the vulnerable, even post vaccination or;
2. Covid wasn't that deadly to begin with or;
3. If vaccine is so effective, all cause parity is a result of vaccine injury

I would not write off 3 so easily, as, all over the place, there is evidence emerging that deaths due to vaccine injury are just not been logged correctly.

 

[JohnStarr]

I would not write off 3 so easily, as, all over the place, there is evidence emerging that deaths due to vaccine injury are just not been logged correctly.

Since it's all over the place, could you please provide evidence? To back up the claim.