Verwoerd's grandson will have a seat in Parliament

Nicodeamus

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I really don't care how fair his convictions was, as that fcked over my ancestors quite badly. Also I don't care for how he "thought", f him. I hope he rots in hell.
The facts are what they are.
They don’t care about your feelings. By ignoring uncomfortable truths you’re just being selective.

Verwoerd until today has been SA’s most educated leader. Which also puts that hypothesis to test that all that people need is education before we start singing kumbaya.
 

thechamp

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The facts are what they are.
They don’t care about your feelings. By ignoring uncomfortable truths you’re just being selective.

Verwoerd until today has been SA’s most educated leader. Which also puts that hypothesis to test that all that people need is education before we start singing kumbaya.
Another irrelevant piece of information about his education, unlike the Broederbond here, I am not the type to question someone's education and credibility just because I don't like them, I have no doubt he was very educated, but then what? He had pretty dumb ideas for an educated man.
 

ambroseg1

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Another irrelevant piece of information about his education, unlike the Broederbond here, I am not the type to question someone's education and credibility just because I don't like them, I have no doubt he was very educated, but then what? He had pretty dumb ideas for an educated man.
That is probably the biggest understatement ever. He had monumentally fcked up ideas and thought like a stupid box with fckall common sense and decency.
 

Nicodeamus

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Another irrelevant piece of information about his education, unlike the Broederbond here, I am not the type to question someone's education and credibility just because I don't like them, I have no doubt he was very educated, but then what? He had pretty dumb ideas for an educated man.
Education is a big appeal and often a 'must' for people to rise to the top.

Verwoerd's ideas today seem very dumb to us, but they were also supported by the pundits of his time. Including some of the Liberals. The homelands for example were expanded by an argument from Jan Hofmeyr. Who essentially said that even though he was against Apartheid, he could at least argue for more land for black people. T

The first use of the word Apartheid was in a speech by Jan Smuts. The historian Herman Gillomee pointed out that the title of 'Architect of Apartheid' is often attributed to Verwoerd to try and whitewash the history that came before him. Smuts based his early justification of Apartheid on his theory of holism which was basically a way of running away with the idea of the ecosystem. Everything had to have 'its place' in society.

What Verwoerd, Smuts and the likes tell me is that we need to be very dangerous of educated men who have a vision for a society. People who believe that the whole country can be summed up by one or two underlying principles. In a way they are more dangerous than tyrants who just want to kill people. The educated villain is sincere in his convictions and believe that he is doing the best for the world.

I take the thesis that history is driven by ideas to be quite serious.


if you're really interested in ideas.
 

Nicodeamus

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That is probably the biggest understatement ever. He had monumentally fcked up ideas and thought like a stupid box with fckall common sense and decency.
Yet his ideas were supported by the ideologues of the time. Which makes you wonder, what monumentally stupid ideas don't we take for granted today that are actually harming people?

Statistically speaking, most of us would be supporting Apartheid had it been in place today.
 
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DreamKing

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Yet his ideas were supported by the ideologues of the time. Which makes you wonder, what monumentally stupid ideas don't we take for granted today that are actually harming people?

Statistically speaking, most of us would be supporting Apartheid had it been in place today.
split SA to be 12+ countries and let them to govern their own tribe (people), that is not a bad idea.
agree?
 

Craig

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The facts are what they are.
They don’t care about your feelings. By ignoring uncomfortable truths you’re just being selective.

Verwoerd until today has been SA’s most educated leader. Which also puts that hypothesis to test that all that people need is education before we start singing kumbaya.
I never said otherwise. Doesn't make him less of a cnt though.

Yet his ideas were supported by the ideologues of the time. Which makes you wonder, what monumentally stupid ideas don't we take for granted today that are actually harming people?

Statistically speaking, most of us would be supporting Apartheid had it been in place today.
This I can agree with. Lots of things going on today is not right. But for me Verwoerd, as an educated person, should have seen the immorality of what he was doing/supporting.
 

Nicodeamus

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split SA to be 12+ countries and let them to govern their own tribe (people), that is not a bad idea.
agree?
It sounds good if it was only that simple. The reality however is that you're going to have to incarcerate every single black person that is working in the mines in Johannesburg since that is where the jobs are.

So the idea is stupid when based in reality.
 

Nicodeamus

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I never said otherwise. Doesn't make him less of a cnt though.



This I can agree with. Lots of things going on today is not right. But for me Verwoerd, as an educated person, should have seen the immorality of what he was doing/supporting.
I agree based on the knowledge that I have today, yet I do see how easy people can fall for ideas when it is blended with the Bible in one hand.

The truth is that a lot of what be believed was standard among the ideologues of his time and the people prior to him. It doesn't exonerate him, it only adds more complexity to South Africa's history.
 

DreamKing

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It sounds good if it was only that simple. The reality however is that you're going to have to incarcerate every single black person that is working in the mines in Johannesburg since that is where the jobs are.

So the idea is stupid when based in reality.
look at namibia, swaziland, lesotho ...

not good?
 

Craig

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I agree based on the knowledge that I have today, yet I do see how easy people can fall for ideas when it is blended with the Bible in one hand.

The truth is that a lot of what be believed was standard among the ideologues of his time and the people prior to him. It doesn't exonerate him, it only adds more complexity to South Africa's history.
The ideology in today's political elite is that it's acceptable to steal. They see nothing wrong with it. Doesn't exonerate them from criticism now or in the future. Same with Verwoerd.
 

Sollie

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The ideology in today's political elite is that it's acceptable to steal. They see nothing wrong with it. Doesn't exonerate them from criticism now or in the future. Same with Verwoerd.
No, it's not acceptable. It's tolerated because of something akin to a political mafia. Yet we all know it's still wrong, so a bad example to use.
 

Craig

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No, it's not acceptable. It's tolerated because of something akin to a political mafia. Yet we all know it's still wrong, so a bad example to use.
Perfect example. How can Zuma and his fellow thieves not realize it's wrong. How could Verwoerd and other racists of the time see it as as acceptable to treat people as they did?
 

Sollie

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Perfect example. How can Zuma and his fellow thieves not realize it's wrong. How could Verwoerd and other racists of the time see it as as acceptable to treat people as they did?
Perhaps we should take a much bigger jump in history, say 2000 years ago (no - not JVR as per local politicians :laugh:)

Slavery? Please note slavery was not the exclusive domain of one culture. Nobody saw it as wrong. Today we all know/believe (?) it to be.
 

Craig

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Perhaps we should take a much bigger jump in history, say 2000 years ago (no - not JVR as per local politicians :laugh:)

Slavery? Please note slavery was not the exclusive domain of one culture. Nobody saw it as wrong. Today we all know/believe (?) it to be.
Same thing. Although that was the case all over the world at that stage, and people were still primitive then. You insinuating that Jacob and Hendrik is/was primitive?
 
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