Vodacom 3g is Pathetic.

Tassidar

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May 22, 2006
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I am now totally sick of Vodacom 3G/HSDPA. For months now, I have had constant disconnects a problem Vodacom has STILL not tackled.

Today I could not even maintain a simple internet banking session without it constantly disconnecting.

Vodacom maintains that a speed of 1.8 MBps is possible, but I have never even come close to this. The fastest I have ever been able to achieve is 100kBps. This was with full signal.

I am now thoroughly FED UP with the absolutely ABYSMAL service I have been getting from Vodacom.
 

LandyMan

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Feb 28, 2005
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Vodacom maintains that a speed of 1.8 MBps is possible, but I have never even come close to this. The fastest I have ever been able to achieve is 100kBps. This was with full signal.

In theory those speeds are possible, but in reality you rarely get it, due to alot of reasons (this is wireless after all). iBurst is the same. I used to get 1Mb/s (sometimes even 1.5), but lately it is around 800kbps, due to tower congestion, "external factors" interfering with wireless signals, etc.

Also, 100kBps is really not bad for HSDPA.

But yeah, I understand your frustration. If it doesn't work for me I also get p!ssed
 

rekall

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Jul 24, 2006
Messages
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For HSDPA 100kbps is really a bit slow though.Especially since he has such good signal strength?
 

ic

MyBroadband
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For HSDPA 100kbps is really a bit slow though.Especially since he has such good signal strength?
"full signal" as Tassidar mentioned is usually less important than signal quality - which will be affected by interference and lots of other factors, full signal strength is important for maximum throughput, but one can experience bad signal quality even with full signal strength...
 

vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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I am now totally sick of Vodacom 3G/HSDPA. For months now, I have had constant disconnects a problem Vodacom has STILL not tackled.

Today I could not even maintain a simple internet banking session without it constantly disconnecting.

Vodacom maintains that a speed of 1.8 MBps is possible, but I have never even come close to this. The fastest I have ever been able to achieve is 100kBps. This was with full signal.

I am now thoroughly FED UP with the absolutely ABYSMAL service I have been getting from Vodacom.

Something is obviously very broken, won't you PM me the call references from 155 and I'll chase up to see what's going on.

Was that 100 kilo bits or Bytes / second you got?
 

Tassidar

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May 22, 2006
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Sorry was having a bit of a bitch there - one disconnect too many, lost my temper.

V3G - 100 Kilobytes per second. I am actually not overly unhappy with the speed, but it still far off what is claimed.

As for the frequent disconnects, I often have in excess of 8 disconnects, which while you are in the middle of an internet banking session and have to reconnect, can get very frustrating. From what I gather, this is somewhat of a common problem in Cape Town?
 

vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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Know the feeling.....

800 kb/s is not to bad but should be more of an average than a max, you might be seeing local transmission congestion.

Are you on pre-paid? There was a period now of about 3 weeks where you would have seen disconnects, also affected Natal, but the systems have been patched, so it should be ok now after last night. I was also disconnected last night due to this.

ic is quite right on signal strength vs. signal quality. I sit on 0 (!) to 1 bars (I'm not in a 3G coverage area), never drops a connection, but my throughput is not so hot, although it's peaked at 1.2Mb/s.

PM me all your contact details, address, etc.
 

sevenworth

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May 24, 2006
Messages
278
Sorry was having a bit of a bitch there - one disconnect too many, lost my temper.

V3G - 100 Kilobytes per second. I am actually not overly unhappy with the speed, but it still far off what is claimed.

As for the frequent disconnects, I often have in excess of 8 disconnects, which while you are in the middle of an internet banking session and have to reconnect, can get very frustrating. From what I gather, this is somewhat of a common problem in Cape Town?

I have the same problem... I have a solution (kind of) though:

It seems that hsdpa needs to be "kept warm" in order to hang on to the connection. What i do is I ping -t www.google.co.za or something and it seems from my experience that it does keep the connection "warm" and much more reliable.

Give it a try, if it works for you, the timy bit of bandwidth loss is worth the reduction in hair-pulling. :D

<added>

PS. I have a dual boot machine with XP and Ubuntu Linux "Dapper Drake". Linux, for some reason is, for lack of a better word, impressive when it comes to 3g: constantly fast speeds, no connection problems, no dropped links. Its almost as if Windows is the problem, not 3g.

Just a thought

</added>
 
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LandyMan

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"full signal" as Tassidar mentioned is usually less important than signal quality - which will be affected by interference and lots of other factors, full signal strength is important for maximum throughput, but one can experience bad signal quality even with full signal strength...

Exactly ... I am not sure if HSDPA/3G is victim of the dreaded FER (Frame Error Rate) or something similar as iBurst, but the aim is to get the FER as low as possible, even if it means 70% signal rather than 100%
 

ic

MyBroadband
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Exactly ... I am not sure if HSDPA/3G is victim of the dreaded FER (Frame Error Rate) or something similar as iBurst, but the aim is to get the FER as low as possible, even if it means 70% signal rather than 100%
Ahhh yes - bad memories of iBurst returning...

FER [as used by iBurst], put simply, is yet another acronym which describes a problem common to all networks: missing data...

When it comes to wireless transmission of data - well wireless transmission is obviously much less reliable than a fixed end-2-end link [obligatory duh :)], but the reason I mention this is bcos I often get the impression that forumites just expect wireless broadband to work anywhere indoors and never bother trying the little clip-on antenna thingy or try pointing it towards a nearby Vodacom|iBurst|whatever base-station.

One should first see if you can get better signal quality [try for signal strength afterwards] - even if it has been working fine for months & all of a sardine goes *^£$%# - if you look at all the construction & other activity that goes on daily it's hardly surprising that interference with wireless transmissions increases all the time - just bcos a Vodacom customer hasn't built some huge obstruction in their back yard, does not mean that nothing else has changed between their premises and the base-station that they're mostly using...

Start by moving your notebook & 3G|HSDPA|GPRS|EDGE outdoors [tough if you have a PC] - run a continuous test of some sort and move about in the hopes of seeing a drastic improvement - otherwise call in the big guns - but mention that you've tried to get a better quality signal outdoors and whether it made no significant difference [in which case it's likely to be a problem from the base-station onwards & upwards].

Lately I mostly keep quiet about signal optimisation bcos I also know that there could be congestion|contention somewhere that could also cause the problems that foumites experience, and I don't want to get into an argument as to what the cause of the problem actually is, and no one seems to be interested in hearing about cell breathing...
 

Dave A

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May 20, 2006
Messages
254
I must say that for me the disconnect issue has gone away. Thanks Vodacom.

However, I am experiencing a steady increase in the effects of congestion.

Particularly partial page loads where the download stops, and then wakes up again 30 seconds later. It's normally quicker to hit the refresh button to get the whole page loaded when it hangs like that. (I suspect this is a cache issue).

Or a simple lack of response to clicking a link, but when you try again ten seconds later it loads fine.

I can only think that there are more and more users on my tower and performance is sliding downhill....

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if this is one of those times when I'd be better off with number 2. In the many years I've been a Vodacom client, it's never even crossed my mind 'till this 3g experience.

I don't know how this problem could be managed exactly. This is, afterall, a mobile product and Vodacom can't exactly control how many users are online in any given area at any particular time. But Vodacom is becoming a victim of it's no.1 status. And us too as Vodacom clients.

The only thought that came to mind was a message on our (user) dashboard that showed how many users are on whatever tower we're connected to. At least we'd know it's congestion as opposed to signal problems and stop running around our gardens trying to improve or clean up our signal when that isn't the problem.

And a steady stream of pings can't help. It might not be a lot of data over the air, but it's a lookup and therefor a network server processor drain.

Edit: Ironically, bandwidth savers such as the AJAX feature of the Edit function of this forum are the worst affected. It seems like the smaller the info transfer, the more trouble you get into.
 
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tishza

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Jun 14, 2006
Messages
10
Go for the best, they say

Vodacom is not ready. Simple as that. I have left Mweb to join VC due to my circumstance at the time.
I know MWEB uses vc for their 3G
Why can't Vodacom use Mweb services?
Vodacom can not handle the pressure.
 

vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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Jan 14, 2005
Messages
12,065
I must say that for me the disconnect issue has gone away. Thanks Vodacom.

However, I am experiencing a steady increase in the effects of congestion.

Particularly partial page loads where the download stops, and then wakes up again 30 seconds later. It's normally quicker to hit the refresh button to get the whole page loaded when it hangs like that. (I suspect this is a cache issue).

Or a simple lack of response to clicking a link, but when you try again ten seconds later it loads fine.

I can only think that there are more and more users on my tower and performance is sliding downhill....

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if this is one of those times when I'd be better off with number 2. In the many years I've been a Vodacom client, it's never even crossed my mind 'till this 3g experience.

I don't know how this problem could be managed exactly. This is, afterall, a mobile product and Vodacom can't exactly control how many users are online in any given area at any particular time. But Vodacom is becoming a victim of it's no.1 status. And us too as Vodacom clients.

The only thought that came to mind was a message on our (user) dashboard that showed how many users are on whatever tower we're connected to. At least we'd know it's congestion as opposed to signal problems and stop running around our gardens trying to improve or clean up our signal when that isn't the problem.

And a steady stream of pings can't help. It might not be a lot of data over the air, but it's a lookup and therefor a network server processor drain.

Edit: Ironically, bandwidth savers such as the AJAX feature of the Edit function of this forum are the worst affected. It seems like the smaller the info transfer, the more trouble you get into.

Load tends to increase in a linear fashion, while capacity is added in big chunks, in a step-like function. So, depending on where you hit the capacity planning, in time, you will see better or worse congestion.

We monitor the network closely, but with around 6000 base stations, it becomes a numbers game, where is what priority?

Your best bet is to report the congestion. These reports do end up in the right place and do see some kind of action, although it might not always seem so. You can also PM me.

I find your observation on packet size interesting. I wonder if you're not seeing the effect of some sliding window in the data stream?

What throughput do you get when you do a FTP of a large file versus a small file? Does the throughput increase?
 

Dave A

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Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
254
Sorry, been a while since I stopped by. But my hosting company has managed to crash my website, so I'm wandering around feeling a bit lost right now.
Load tends to increase in a linear fashion, while capacity is added in big chunks, in a step-like function. So, depending on where you hit the capacity planning, in time, you will see better or worse congestion.

We monitor the network closely, but with around 6000 base stations, it becomes a numbers game, where is what priority?
Performance has continued to slide at Redhill, Durban. Basically a steady drift downhill. I understand the allocation of resources problem - I just think that informing users would help ease frustration - I can be quite understanding if I'm kept informed.

Your best bet is to report the congestion. These reports do end up in the right place and do see some kind of action, although it might not always seem so. You can also PM me.
Thanks for the offer. Where does one officially report suspected congestion?

I find your observation on packet size interesting. I wonder if you're not seeing the effect of some sliding window in the data stream?

What throughput do you get when you do a FTP of a large file versus a small file? Does the throughput increase?
I think it's a case of you being overagressive on scaling transfer speed according to file size. Basically, I'm a webmaster. When I FTP a site, I get a list of transfer speeds. Next time I do a batch, I'll save the record for you. But it can range from 4 Kbps on teeny files to about 60Kbps on fairly large ones. There is definitely a speed to file size aspect ratio. you've commented on this before, I just think it's too aggressive at the bottom end.

When I'm downloading a backup, I'm smiling :D Nothing faster I've come across when you're downloading 10 megs+!

The problem is a modern site can often have lots of tiny <1Kb graphics for buttons, etc. And this is where the speed scaling becomes an issue. The main stuff loads reasonably, the graphics come crawling in behind.

This site using vBulletin is a classic example. Try clearing your cache and then post a reply. See how long it takes for all the little buttons to load up. The difference between HSDPA and ADSL is very visible. Add congestion and things get fairly grim. Total pagesize is not much, but it's made of lots of little bits. Take a look at the source code in a post reply page and count the number of img src=

To make matters worse, a lot of sites are setting aggressive no-cache values to stop caching problems for users of dynamic interactive sites. ISP's can be sooo naughty about caching. Overseas, bandwidth just isn't such a scarce resource but the ISP's seem to do it anyway :rolleyes:
 
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vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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Jan 14, 2005
Messages
12,065
We definitely don't fiddle with download speeds based on any parameter. All protocols are treated the same.

Rather I think you're seeing an IP effect (am pretty sure). If you do a bigger download you'll see the latency on the first packet only. Think of a pipe of water, once the water appears at the bottom end, it flows continuously.

If you do lots of small downloads (the icons, for example) you wait for every drop to appear.

All these latencies adds up to make the page load slowly.

You can reports at 155 or mail the call desk.

Brad, are you lurking? Any idea on Redhill?
 

lin_ux

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
18
Sorry was having a bit of a bitch there - one disconnect too many, lost my temper.

V3G - 100 Kilobytes per second. I am actually not overly unhappy with the speed, but it still far off what is claimed.

As for the frequent disconnects, I often have in excess of 8 disconnects, which while you are in the middle of an internet banking session and have to reconnect, can get very frustrating. From what I gather, this is somewhat of a common problem in Cape Town?

Hi

You will never get 1.8mbits/s . the best for hsdpa is arounf 900kbits/s as you need to be very close to the node-b to have 1.8mbits/s .
 

flipmo

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Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
95
i've been gettin averages of between 1100k and 1400k...and i'm not that close to a tower...the nearest one is bout 2 kms away...over a ridge...and my connection's only been dropped once in the 3 months i've been usin hsdpa...im happy with vc...just the damn price....

ps...v3g...a new record...

Last Result:
Download Speed: 1503 kbps (187.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 281 kbps (35.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
 
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MikeN

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Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
23
Spot-on mate! I have HSDPA (for which I have to fork-out a premium of R200p/m, nogal) and my download speed is a mere 350 kbps.... When I complained to 155, I was informed that this is normal!?
 

vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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Jan 14, 2005
Messages
12,065
i've been gettin averages of between 1100k and 1400k...and i'm not that close to a tower...the nearest one is bout 2 kms away...over a ridge...and my connection's only been dropped once in the 3 months i've been usin hsdpa...im happy with vc...just the damn price....

ps...v3g...a new record...

Last Result:
Download Speed: 1503 kbps (187.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 281 kbps (35.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

Cool, stil not beating my best of 1720Kb/s ! :)

Now if we can get it constant at 1.5Mb/s.....

You know the OOB rate is now lower if you start off with a bundle?
 
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