Vumacam’s ‘hundreds of thousands of cameras’ will be watching you

Cosmik Debris

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We urgently need national legislation to protect the privacy of individuals with the rollout of all these cameras in public places, and the collection, storage and dissemination of all the data accumulated. Many of these camera companies must be reeled in and constrained.

The Bill of Rights deals with privacy:

14 Privacy

Everyone has the right to privacy, which includes the right not to have—

(a) their person or home searched;
(b) their property searched;
(c) their possessions seized; or
(d) the privacy of their communications infringed.

That's it. You have no entitlement to privacy in public.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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not right now, but that does not mean they will bring them back.
especially if push comes to shove from somebody saying why its Etolls not making money?

Well given that they've never managed to get the law changes required through the system, its not gonna happen..
They could try again of course, and be cock-blocked AGAIN.

Im no lawyer, so I cant give you an "obscure" law, but I'm sure they will find one,
when the ANC wants something, they usually get what they want.

laugh and Joke all you like, the ANC hasn't thought this way, but somewhere, somehow, somebody is thinking exactly along these lines.
as its literally perfect for a Fine and income generating machine. its too perfect not too,

you just think its mad, until it happens exactly this way.

So you aren't a lawyer but you'll happily claim some obscure law...
When the ANC wants something, it tries to get it and when its way outside of the law they very often get a legal beatdown for it.

And it may ultimately end up in the way you think, but the process to get there will be long and winding and not secret at all... and the hoops to jump through to make it happen will be immense and be tested in court multiple times.
 

Cosmik Debris

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We have them in our area. Same cars parked off. Public drinking. Nothing happens when when reported. Security vans drive past.
This will be more about building profiles on us for targeted marketing than crime

What they going to target you to sell? Lawnmowers, car polish, and see through shopping bags so they know what you buy?
 

supersunbird

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So rolling out these cameras cost a boat load of money. What is their business case? And what is being sold and to who?

From what I understand:

They just have the poles and the networks, then security companies (and JMPD and SAPS and neighborhood watches?) can rent the services from them (that's when the cameras are installed), the AI will flag event as it detects it and alert an operator to check the feed (the screens are black the rest of the time, and it learns from what the operator chooses to do or classify the event as) and then the operator notifies their client.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Yep , along with freedom of movement, freedom of speech and freedom of association.
If ones movements are tracked from home to work to shops to wherever , the right to freedom of movement is being trod on.

Nope. You are still free to move. Even if someone watches you move.

If one is being recorded , as per stated in the article, the option of adding audio to camera feeds , that becomes a threat to free speech.

Nope, due to freedom of speech your work cannot record audio in your workspace.

Who you associate with is monitored, political dissidents , political rallies, it might be as innocent as being seen with your neighbour or maybe a family member who was convicted of a crime , thats your freedom of association.

If you were subversive in your association with those, you would already be a person of interest and have HumInt assigned to your movements and you wouldn't even know. If you aren't doing anything wrong, nobody cares about who you associate with.
 

Cosmik Debris

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My concern is if when this data falls into the wrong hands, how it can be abused for nefarious purposes.

Imagine a criminal syndicate having access to thousands of people's comings and goings - it would make organised crime a lot easier if this sort of data would be in the reach of the hijacking syndicates, as an example.

/dons tinfoil hat

Seen all the data breaches in SA? Everybody's data is in criminal hands...
 

Vorastra

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It's threads like these that shows who has strong morals and who doesn't.
A lot of disappointment in this thread, and some surprises.
 

marine1

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The problem is leaving this all to one company / person in charge is a dangerous way forward.
You dont know what they are doing with the footage and who they are maybe selling stuff to
 

PhireSide

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So like all the ANC cities with camera networks then? :p

And yes that in an of itself is potentially a concern, IF you are a high value target like a big business or something of that sort, for your average joe in a suburb the criminal syndicate that can manage such a volume of data isn't after your TVs and jewellery.
That's fair enough. I have just learnt to never underestimate a criminal's resolve and resourcefulness, so that is the first thing that came to mind.

We don't have Vumacam down here but Atlas Security and ADT have camera systems up in certain areas already, which I am sure is helping a fair bit with keeping crime low.
 

supersunbird

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says the man who hasn't seen those cops hook up a non functioning camera up to generate some bribes,
since when has it ever stopped our enterprising JMPD from getting their bribes?

all it takes if for Cele to wake up on the wrong side of the bed and decide to utilize all these hi quality cameras to generate some funds.
im certain when Etolls get scrapped, those cameras will be used to measure speeds as well. and generate a steady stream of income to buy worthless "Police cars" for the Fat cats.

You make as if enforcing the rules of the road are a bad thing?
 

Cosmik Debris

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The only one coming here with ANC conspiracy theories is you.

We work with our local SAPS, not against them. We have a very good relationship with them. First responders have a direct line to them. Because it takes community cooperation to bring crime under control.

But I suppose it's easier to come whine on online forums about the ANC, instead of getting off your arses and doing something about it for the good of your community. And then moan some more about the tools used to fight crime...

Oh dear. Now you've done it. When I tell people here I work with the police, like you have, they refuse to believe me...
 

Gyre

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It's threads like these that shows who has strong morals and who doesn't.
A lot of disappointment in this thread, and some surprises.

What morals tho?

We all support privacy, but we support it to different extents. In public, someone is going to see you regardless. There is already cameras in shops, malls, restaurants, parks, schools, etc.

We all condemn crime, some to differing degrees. The cameras don't impede movement, they just make movement easier to track.

And if they use my public data anyway, what can they do with it? What is different between SAPS uploading my video(walk across the street) to Youtube and a mall uploading my data(walking down the corridor) to Youtube?
 

Cosmik Debris

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yes they will be "forced to" how , why?
well lets start with this, they are a private company, and all it takes is for somebody to say they are illegal due to some obscure laws.
and boom, they are controlled by the SAPS or the police or goverment, and here we go with my "raving nutjob" conspiracy theory.

Show me those obscure laws nobody is aware of but the police are?
 
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