Vumatel accused of cutting contractor fees after work had started

Fibre Fred

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It is this type of behaviour that has the industry hamstrung. The corporates have slashed the rates so low and the delays for payment so erratic that the small company is struggling to stay afloat. Standards are now non existent and workmanship a thing of the past because of this.
 

daveza

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On a related matter, Vumatel dug up the neighbourhood to lay fiber - the junction box is on the corner.

Driving past earlier I noticed the box was now labelled Openserve ?
 

Swa

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Uhm, there was no signed contract stipulating a price ?
What I'm wondering. If there was an agreed price I don't see how they can change that and tell the contractor if they're not happy to cancel.
 

PsyWulf

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Uhm, there was no signed contract stipulating a price ?
The installers don't have the work to be able to walk away from anything,and sometimes are waiting months to get paid for work to date,and only on completion of projects does this timer even start

So if you play hardass,your money gets delayed
If you threaten legal action for 1 job,all the other jobs dry up

There's 1 long bridge with arteries,you burn it you are likely never to get across any others
 

under_sky

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What I'm wondering. If there was an agreed price I don't see how they can change that and tell the contractor if they're not happy to cancel.
Probably pulling something like Vodacom whereby they have these escapes. You don't see people given the option to leave their Vodacom contract when they push the prices up
 

Slamz

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On a related matter, Vumatel dug up the neighbourhood to lay fiber - the junction box is on the corner.

Driving past earlier I noticed the box was now labelled Openserve ?
for all i know its Vuma installing for Openserve, something like that build to transfer model
 

Slamz

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The installers don't have the work to be able to walk away from anything,and sometimes are waiting months to get paid for work to date,and only on completion of projects does this timer even start

So if you play hardass,your money gets delayed
If you threaten legal action for 1 job,all the other jobs dry up

There's 1 long bridge with arteries,you burn it you are likely never to get across any others
this is 100% correct, many smaller companies are closing down because of this and the corporate's get away with it. its do as i say or i'll make your life extremely difficult and the powers that be in these companies dont give a flying goat, its only about numbers... with this attitude the unemployment rate will be escalating consistently year on year
 

Emjay

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Competition has made the price of broadband services drop through the floor. Some services are offered at a loss. I don't know how the smaller ISPs actually get by, tbh.

If Vumatel is not hitting its profitability margins, what's wrong with going back to the table to renegotiate fees? Fibre trenching is fiercely competitive, and players in the market undercut each other to get any business they can. And, with demand decreasing as more and more fibre is put into the ground, prices are going to drop.

Of the people complaining, how many of you would be willing to pay more to cover the losses? The answer is zero.

Butler explained that contracts for projects are awarded on a per-project basis, and following an RFP process.

“Vendors or contractors can at any stage in the process withdraw, should they wish to and we respect this decision,” Butler said.
The contractor has an option to walk. Those "legalities" extend both ways.
 

Swa

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Competition has made the price of broadband services drop through the floor. Some services are offered at a loss. I don't know how the smaller ISPs actually get by, tbh.

If Vumatel is not hitting its profitability margins, what's wrong with going back to the table to renegotiate fees? Fibre trenching is fiercely competitive, and players in the market undercut each other to get any business they can. And, with demand decreasing as more and more fibre is put into the ground, prices are going to drop.

Of the people complaining, how many of you would be willing to pay more to cover the losses? The answer is zero.



The contractor has an option to walk. Those "legalities" extend both ways.
They're not offering it at a loss. At the current prices they make their money back in 2-3 years. It's because of their rapid expansion that they owe billions which they're trying to recoup in even less time now. Vumatel is the most uncompetitve network there is. They should drop their ridiculous activation fee which is actively driving ISPs to use other providers and cutting them out and have symmetric speeds at affordable rates.
 

Emjay

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They're not offering it at a loss. At the current prices they make their money back in 2-3 years. It's because of their rapid expansion that they owe billions which they're trying to recoup in even less time now. Vumatel is the most uncompetitve network there is. They should drop their ridiculous activation fee which is actively driving ISPs to use other providers and cutting them out and have symmetric speeds at affordable rates.
2 to 3 years?

:ROFL: :ROFL:

I'll tell you what. I will pay you to present a model to me which will show how to build a broadband network that will pay for itself and become profitable in 2 to 3 years.
 
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Slamz

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Competition has made the price of broadband services drop through the floor. Some services are offered at a loss. I don't know how the smaller ISPs actually get by, tbh.

If Vumatel is not hitting its profitability margins, what's wrong with going back to the table to renegotiate fees? Fibre trenching is fiercely competitive, and players in the market undercut each other to get any business they can. And, with demand decreasing as more and more fibre is put into the ground, prices are going to drop.

Of the people complaining, how many of you would be willing to pay more to cover the losses? The answer is zero.



The contractor has an option to walk. Those "legalities" extend both ways.
i hear you, but they not going back to the table to negotiate fees, they are forcing their rates to the subcontractors midway through a project.

A subcontractor could do a project for a lower rate, but as a principle rule in project management, budget, budget. budget. at the start of the project, the subcontractor budgeted according to the rates he agreed with Vuma, now take into account, planning, labor, tools, health and safety, logistics etc. the subcontractor knows this is going to cost him xxx amount and he will make a 10% margin, halfway through the project, the rates are reduced by 10-15%(example), how the hell is the subcontractor going to make any money, also taking into account the delays etc which costs the subcontractor more money...

If you ask me, because of the excess amount of subcontractors on this fibre rollout bandwagon, the FSP's are using bullying tactics on rates to capitalize on the situation.

It's a dog eats dog world for the FSP and they couldnt care less which SME/EME they close down.
 

Swa

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2 to 3 years?

:ROFL: :ROFL:

I'll tell you what. I will pay you to present a model to me which will show how to build a broadband network that will pay for itself and become profitable in 2 to 3 years.
I'll tell you what. Go look at e.g. Vodacom's network expenditure and their yearly revenue and come back to us. I'm not going to pay more to these telecoms clowns because they already overcharge instead of running at a loss. It's your assumption that they are.

I've also talked to people in the industry before and the figures they use internally vs the ones they report externally aren't even nearly the same.
 

daveza

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So ... we must just ignore companies who don't care what contracts stipulate because that's the way business is done in this industry ?
 

Emjay

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I'll tell you what. Go look at e.g. Vodacom's network expenditure and their yearly revenue and come back to us. I'm not going to pay more to these telecoms clowns because they already overcharge instead of running at a loss. It's your assumption that they are.

I've also talked to people in the industry before and the figures they use internally vs the ones they report externally aren't even nearly the same.
Whatever you say. I have been in this industry for over 10 years now and personally worked on financial models for broadband networks and products. Who says I have not seen the costs of products within Vodacom? Comparing Vumatel to Vodacom is also comparing apples to oranges because of far too many reasons to get into. You being somewhat technical should be able to appreciate that very minor fact.

This coming from a guy who complains that women have not earned the right to vote because they did not have to face conscription... Guess how much stock I put in your "word"? This much > <.

But, I suggest you message Vodacom with your revolutionary idea on how an ISP can build a network and pay it off in 2 to 3 years. They often give out prize money (worth 7 figures) for revolutionary ideas.
 
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