What a country - Hijackers kill paramedic

[bwana]

17/10/2006 19:42 - (SA)

Johannesburg - A 41-year-old paramedic was shot dead on Tuesday afternoon when three armed men hijacked the ambulance he was driving, Bloemfontein police said.

The paramedic had just dropped off patients at a hospital in the city when he and a nurse stopped at a shop, said Inspector Thandi Mbambo.

The gunmen, driving in a white Honda Ballade, stopped in front of the ambulance, ordered the paramedic out and one fired a shot which hit him in the left armpit.

They fled with the nurse still in the vehicle but abandoned the ambulance a short while later. The nurse was found unharmed at a nearby settlement.

"Police are on the look-out for the three suspects," Mbambo said.

A case of murder was opened for investigation.

Hijacking ambulances now?

 

[Darth Garth]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2015385,00.htmlHijacking ambulances now?

Some ambulances are just modified Toyota Hi-Ace's.

 

[bwana]

Some ambulances are just modified Toyota Hi-Ace's.

I'm sure you'll agree that wouldnt justify anything. Even if it was a plain vehicle (and there's no indication here if it was or wasnt) they killed the driver.

 

[Darth Garth]

I'm sure you'll agree that wouldnt justify anything. Even if it was a plain vehicle (and there's no indication here if it was or wasnt) they killed the driver.

Indeed ... these ****ers don't care.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

this is just shocking if for example the cops showed up and injured the hijackers the paramedics would be the ones helping to keep the hijackers or if one of the hijackers family got injured again paramedics got a job to do. Why the hell kill some1 that could potentially save u or a family members life ? More importantly wtf hijack an ambulance at all not like they carry large amounts of money

 

[supersunbird]

Cant wait for them to get shot themselves and no paramedics to treat them...

Man, they are stupid...

 

[supersunbird]

More importantly wtf hijack an ambulance at all not like they carry large amounts of money

As they said, it will be made into a taxi, probably in a neighbouring state or too collect money from the scraping of it from the Taxi Recapitalisation Plan...

 

[Creed]

These "people" aren't all that stupid, some of them pull off ingenious crimes.

They are animals and they should be put down like animals before they hurt someone else.

They say ppl can change and I believe that but someone who hijacks an ambulance and murders the paramedic is beyond redemption.

 

[kingrob]

These "people" aren't all that stupid, some of them pull off ingenious crimes.

They are animals and they should be put down like animals before they hurt someone else.

They say ppl can change and I believe that but someone who hijacks an ambulance and murders the paramedic is beyond redemption.

Ah-men, I can't agree more.

Some people deserve to die.

 

[bdt]

These "people" aren't all that stupid, some of them pull off ingenious crimes. They are animals and they should be put down like animals before they hurt someone else.

Oh HELL no, these barbarians are ALL human; they are our breed, born of woman (and all that) - you don't find animals brutally murdering their own kind (at ALL that I know of, but do please enlighten us if you can cite any cases) with anywhere near the callous disregard for life that we do.

Don't get me wrong, I deplore this kind of savagery and have the same kind of (knee-jerk gut feel) reaction that they should be put down with the same kind of lack of compunction that we mass slaughter our feed animals (cattle, sheep, chickens, et al) ..the descent into mob savagery to mete out 'justice' makes us no better than them.

 

[Creed]

Were not at mob justice yet because our legal system hasn't completely broken down yet but it's a catch 22 situation.

The more criminals the police catch the bigger the load on an already overloaded court system will be and we will se more cases of overworked judges. An example:

South African police were yesterday trying to round up a group of suspected criminals after they were released by a magistrate who had complained she was too tired to hear their cases. The 11 suspects, including an alleged rapist who had been sought by police for years, were all allowed to walk free from the court in the central city of Kimberley after the judge Kubashni Padayachee refused to sit beyond the 4pm scheduled end of her working day

You aren't allowed to do more thana certain amount of hours a day when operating machinery.What is the max amount of hours you are allowed to work when you are deciding a persons fate?

The less criminals the police catch the more vigilante action we will see.It is already growing.

In our society the police is becomeing less and less capable to catch and convict criminals because of "lack of capacity", corruption in the courts and in the police, lack of training,lack of funds and equipment,overloading of their workload,scrapping of specialised sqauds amongst many other reasons.

If the police can't/won't catch the rapists/murderers/drugdealers amongst many other scumbags they leave the community no real choice but to start taking a pro-active approach to crime.

We aren't quite at the wild west scenario yet but give it time.I hope the situation starts getting better instead of worse but to say people who protect their families or communities are

no better than them.

them being rapist/murderers/dealers and other scumbags is in my opinion naive.

 

[bdt]

Were not at mob justice yet because our legal system hasn't completely broken down yet but it's a catch 22 situation.

No we're not ..at least not all the time - remember 'necklacing' and whenever the (usually "township" (yes, in sunny .za that's a euphimism - and you know what for: let's stipulate it as read and move on)) masses corner some unfortunate (who is often the actual offender) and often beat/pulp/mash him to within an inch of his life before the cops manage to get him away from them.

The more criminals the police catch the bigger the load on an already overloaded court system will be and we will se more cases of overworked judges.

..like that cretinous ingrate who decided she wasn't going to work later than 4pm and summarily set a whole bunch of nasty 'people' free? But yes, it's only going to get worse, for quite awhile yet I suspect; brace yourself sport, it's going to get wild in here.

An example:

You aren't allowed to do more thana certain amount of hours a day when operating machinery.What is the max amount of hours you are allowed to work when you are deciding a persons fate?

This may be why we have courts (of actual, studied, argued over for and against ..and enforced) law who (are at least meant to) impartially weigh things up and arrive at something that approximates justice. Sadly this doesn't work all that well, but it IS better than the alternatives of chaos, 'kangaroo' courts and mob vigilantism.

The less criminals the police catch the more vigilante action we will see.It is already growing.

Yep, because people ultimately have a deep seated need to feel ... no, BE safe in their homes and communities and the longer the authorities fail to get it right the more of a pressure-cooker situation we end up with - and the safety valve involves bloodshed.

In our society the police is becomeing less and less capable to catch and convict criminals because of "lack of capacity", corruption in the courts and in the police, lack of training,lack of funds and equipment,overloading of their workload,scrapping of specialised sqauds amongst many other reasons.

If the police can't/won't catch the rapists/murderers/drugdealers amongst many other scumbags they leave the community no real choice but to start taking a pro-active approach to crime.

Aye, the public perception is that the police have long since lost the plot and, short of some kind of incredibly drastic action (which we'll NEVER see) to "take back the streets" it looks more and more likely that the people will start "taking a pro-active approach to crime." - a polite euphimism for mob-rule and vigilantism.

We aren't quite at the wild west scenario yet but give it time.I hope the situation starts getting better instead of worse but to say people who protect their families or communities are

no better than them.

being rapist/murderers/dealers and other scumbags is in my opinion naive.

"civilisation" is at best a tenuous veneer, and one that's all too easily shredded; I have the phrase "it takes 3 days of no lights and running water for civilisation to collapse" but can't recall where it comes from. As to naïveté: sure, but don't overlook people not wanting to face the dreadful horror that is resorting to the kind of mob violence that is likely the inevitable result of the path we're currently on .. *sigh*

 

[Koos Custodiet]

[...] necklacing [...] masses corner some unfortunate (who is often the actual offender) and often beat/pulp/mash him to within an inch of his life

Well, a few feet on the other side of his life when it comes to necklacing... not that I have a problem with the general concept (yes, the wrong guy can get caught up in this. This happens in courts too) -- read on...

Yep, because people ultimately have a deep seated need to feel ... no, BE safe in their homes and communities

It's hard work, keeping the streets safe, which is why society created an elite to patrol the streets and control crime.

But that was a long time ago and they're not that "elite" any more...

Aye, the public perception is that the police have long since lost the plot

Of course, the public is both right and wrong, as is often the case

Because of many factors (and hey, I only *sound* as if I have all the answers -- hell, how to phrase this -- IMO the people are supposed to work with the police (or maybe it's the other way 'round) -- but when the police decide to shirk their duties -- for example traffic cops manning a radar gun while people drive recklessly all over the place -- people lose respect for the police, and it's downhill from there.

My apologies for that random collection of thoughts, will write an essay when I have The Answer (TM).

Anyway, the police _respond_ to situations. As Leitmotif said in a different thread, think about what "response" means.

There are two parties present at the scene of a crime. The criminal, and the victim [yea, I know, doesn't scale to bank robberies and the like but that's not the point]. The one party almost guaranteed not to be present is the police. Because (and this is important) the criminal can choose his time and place.

The only thing a justice system can accomplish is to make sure that a criminal doesn't do it twice. Someone has to die before you can catch a murderer. These are dead obvious statements -- which few people ever think about.

*If* the justice system works (and let's face it, we have a conviction rate around 5% -- of *reported* crimes) it *may* serve as a deterrent to crime.

But the bottom line is that if violence is ever perpetrated against *you* ... *you* need to counter it. How you counter it is of course up to you. You can try to run away, you can (as most people seem to be doing) hope it never happens to you, you can buy five guns and train yourself into a lean mean fighting machine, whatever. All of these may or may not improve your chances of survival.

But what's important is that you take responsibility. Because the police have never had that responsibility, and even if they had, and they were well trained and capable, when it comes to crime, you are (literally) on your own.

"civilisation" is at best a tenuous veneer, and one that's all too easily shredded; I have the phrase "it takes 3 days of no lights and running water for civilisation to collapse" but can't recall where it comes from.

I have it "three meals from revolt" but yea, that's the idea.

Civilisation is an incredibly complex, quite robust, very fragile machine [1].

Koos

[1] You can blame the education system for the apparent contradiction in that sentence. Afrikaans prescribed book "Die uurwerk kantel" -- "'n Mens is ongelooflik taai, en tog so broos".

 

[AntiThesis]

How you counter it is of course up to you.

The problem with countering violence is that the criminal always has one up on you. They're better armed, better prepared. Even if you have 5 guns, you can't be prepared all the time.

 

[Goobie]

As they said, it will be made into a taxi, probably in a neighbouring state or too collect money from the scraping of it from the Taxi Recapitalisation Plan...

From DIE VOLKSBLAD:

Beamptes het twee uur later op die Thaba Nchu-pad op die verlate minibus afgekom.

So the minibus was found 2 hours later...so why would you kill somebody for it and then abandon the car? ****ing savages!

 

[Syndyre]

But the bottom line is that if violence is ever perpetrated against *you* ... *you* need to counter it. How you counter it is of course up to you. You can try to run away, you can (as most people seem to be doing) hope it never happens to you, you can buy five guns and train yourself into a lean mean fighting machine, whatever. All of these may or may not improve your chances of survival.

But what's important is that you take responsibility. Because the police have never had that responsibility, and even if they had, and they were well trained and capable, when it comes to crime, you are (literally) on your own.
.

True, but then society also needs to give you the legal rights to defend yourself, rather than the situation today where its difficult to acquire a legal gun and the situations in which you're allowed to use it are even more complicated and convoluted.

 

[Riq]

well, at least these things are making headlines. You know it's getting bad in south africa if murder doesn't make the press

 

[Syndyre]

Well how often do you see 3 lines about a murder on page 5. That's pretty bad too.

 

[Leitmotif]

The problem with countering violence is that the criminal always has one up on you. They're better armed, better prepared. Even if you have 5 guns, you can't be prepared all the time.

Yes you can. Preparation is a state of mind. Accept two truths: It can happen to you and It can happen at any time. People ignore these truths because it's the easiest way to 'make it go away'. There's another way. Digest these two sentences and make them a part of your thinking. I've been attacked in the center of Sunnyside, mugged on the beachfront in Durban, held up at gunpoint in the bush in Baviaanspoort while rock climbing. I know what I'm talking about.

The only reason criminals are better armed is because our damned government is running to restrict legal gun ownership instead of getting rid of the real problems. The only reason they're better prepared is because people aren't prepared at all. I'm not talking about syndicates here, I'm talking about the three guys that step out of a bus stop shelter to hold you up with knives.

South Africans think they've accepted the crime situation but they haven't. They're ignoring it and complaining when particularly horrific incidents come to light. Acceptance of the situation is vital before the public will do anything. Acceptance means realising that you may have to do something to help. Because you will have to.

Our police commisioner and safety and security minister refuse to accept the crime problem. This means that they are not prepared to fight crime as it is. They are fighting the figments in their own detached minds.

 

[Leitmotif]

True, but then society also needs to give you the legal rights to defend yourself, rather than the situation today where its difficult to acquire a legal gun and the situations in which you're allowed to use it are even more complicated and convoluted.

It's not complicated, just not well defined. The training handbook you get for your competency states that you may use your gun 'in any situation where a reasonable man would believe that his life or the lives of others are under immediate threat'. Unfortunately, this means there is no real rule for when to draw and fire, except for when a gun is being pointed at you/someone else. Even then, you'll still be charged with murder and required to prove yourself innocent. Nice little reversal, no?

Your sentiments, though, are appreciated. People should have the right to defend themselves, and to acquire the neccessary equipment to do so.