What do I need to know to buy a small generator for the TV during loadshedding?

[Lucy Parot]

I want to buy a small generator to run the tv and hifi only during loadshedding. Those items are already on a separate system independent from the mains, as we used to use a 2kva ups until the batteries died. Then I found out that deep cycle batteries not really suitable for application.

Besides load, which will be small, can anybody else advise on other considerations? For instance, concerned that a generator alone is not ok to run delicate electronics directly etc.

 

[SHL]

You will be able to listen to the generator rather than the tv.

 

[Lucy Parot]

One looking at will be in the garage which is about 14m away and has db rating of 57. Exhaust will either be routed through wall, or alteratively outside with weather protection

 

[tetrasect]

I want to buy a small generator to run the tv and hifi only during loadshedding. Those items are already on a separate system independent from the mains, as we used to use a 2kva ups until the batteries died. Then I found out that deep cycle batteries not really suitable for application.

Besides load, which will be small, can anybody else advise on other considerations? For instance, concerned that a generator alone is not ok to run delicate electronics directly etc.

Why not just replace the battery with a bigger and better one? If it's a 12V setup you can buy an oversized battery and install it next to the UPS and connect it via cables.

A battery like this would keep a TV on for a very very long time: https://protonsolardistributors.co....atteries/200ah-12v-gel-ecco-detail?Itemid=101

 

[Drifter]

Get a generator inverter. More suitable for electronics. a 2.5 is about R6500 (Ryobi at Makro).

 

[bwana]

Get a generator inverter. More suitable for electronics. a 2.5 is about R6500 (Ryobi at Makro).

I got that one a couple of weeks ago when they were on sale for R5999. Runs everything in the house except the geyser and oven.

EDIT: they call it a 2500w but it's actually 2600.

 

[Drifter]

That's not bad.

 

[Lucy Parot]

Why not just replace the battery with a bigger and better one? If it's a 12V setup you can buy an oversized battery and install it next to the UPS and connect it via cables.

A battery like this would keep a TV on for a very very long time: https://protonsolardistributors.co....atteries/200ah-12v-gel-ecco-detail?Itemid=101

The original batteries when new lasted about 5 - 6 hours. But deep cycle batteries, as I now understand it, are not designed to go below about 50% of charge. Even at that they lose longevitiy fairly rapidly. We were going to exhaustion, and within months the went down to about 1 - 1.5 hrs. To replace the batteties replace would cost about R5K only to have the same thing happen again. A ups is really only designed to give time to turn computers off, not run equipment for hours. Hence interest in a generator.

 

[Lupus]

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For what you want to power, this will do, I've got one and it powers a 32", Xbox one, 50", Mibox, router and two dstv decoders.
It's also powered a monitor and laptop for 4.5 hours no problems, used about 1.5l.
It's a little louder than a lawn mower and I have it in the garage with the exhaust facing out the door.
With the right fuel to oil mixture it didn't smoke much at all.

 

[Gtx Gaming]

You need a 1440watt mecer inverter with 2x 100ah deep cycle, much better than gennie that you need start up each time

 

[Lupus]

You need a 1440watt mecer inverter with 2x 100ah deep cycle, much better than gennie that you need start up each time

I've got one, still run the generator for Stage 4 load shedding in Joburg

 

[tetrasect]

The original batteries when new lasted about 5 - 6 hours. But deep cycle batteries, as I now understand it, are not designed to go below about 50% of charge. Even at that they lose longevitiy fairly rapidly. We were going to exhaustion, and within months the went down to about 1 - 1.5 hrs. To replace the batteties replace would cost about R5K only to have the same thing happen again. A ups is really only designed to give time to turn computers off, not run equipment for hours. Hence interest in a generator.

What size/type was the original battery?

"Deep cycle battery" is pretty much a marketing term used to sell crappy lead acid batteries to unsuspecting customers. Quality batteries will not advertise themselves as "deep cycle".

It's much better to focus on the battery technology than the buzzwords. "Calcium batteries" and "nano carbon batteries" and "silver" whatever batteries is also just marketing crap since every battery today contains many metals/minerals to optimize performance.

The battery I linked to uses Gel technology which drastically increases service life compared to traditional batteries. Basically the electrolyte is made into a gel so it does not evaporate, gas out or spill. They have about double the cycle life of AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries.

How many watts does your TV/Hifi consume on average? A modern TV (+/- 100W) should be able to run 10 hours on the battery I linked to before the battery reaches 50% discharge.
2 hours of loadshedding should only result in 10% discharge in which case the battery could last 10 years (if there is loadshedding once a day)

The one thing that might be of concern is the charging voltage of the UPS and whether it is capable of float charge. Gel batteries are sensitive to voltages above 14.4V so if your charger pushes out 14.7V it's a no go.

If your UPS is compatible it would be a no-brainer for me. A one-time purchase that will last many years to come compared to a generator with moving parts that will fail after some time (especially cheap brands like Ryobi) which you also have to feed with petrol on top of it (plus it makes noise, stinks the place up, does not kick in automatically and is bad for the environment).

Ryobi 650 W 2-Stroke Petrol Generator | Makro

Unbeatable Ryobi 650 W 2-Stroke Petrol Generator Deal. Shop Online or Locate Your Nearest Makro Store. ✓ Reliable Delivery ✓ Easy Returns ✓ Many Ways to Pay!

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For what you want to power, this will do, I've got one and it powers a 32", Xbox one, 50", Mibox, router and two dstv decoders.
It's also powered a monitor and laptop for 4.5 hours no problems, used about 1.5l.
It's a little louder than a lawn mower and I have it in the garage with the exhaust facing out the door.
With the right fuel to oil mixture it didn't smoke much at all.

How long have you had it? I had one of those years ago and it kept failing. Luckily Game kept replacing them, think I went through about 3 of them before the original warranty expired.

 

[Lupus]

What size/type was the original battery?

"Deep cycle battery" is pretty much a marketing term used to sell crappy lead acid batteries to unsuspecting customers. Quality batteries will not advertise themselves as "deep cycle".

It's much better to focus on the battery technology than the buzzwords. "Calcium batteries" and "nano carbon batteries" and "silver" whatever batteries are also just marketing crap since every battery today contains many metals/minerals to optimize performance.

The battery I linked to uses Gel technology which drastically increases service life compared to traditional batteries. Basically the electrolyte is made into a gel so it does not evaporate, gas out or spill. They have about double the cycle life of AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries.

How many watts does your TV/Hifi consume on average? A modern TV (+/- 100W) should be able to run 10 hours on the battery I linked to before the battery reaches 50% discharge.
2 hours of loadshedding should only result in 10% discharge in which case the battery could last 10 years (if there is loadshedding once a day)

The one thing that might be of concern is the charging voltage of the UPS and whether it is capable of float charge. Gel batteries are sensitive to voltages above 14.4V so if your charger pushes out 14.7V it's a no go.

If your UPS is compatible it would be a no-brainer for me. A one-time purchase that will last many years to come compared to a generator with moving parts that will fail after some time (especially cheap brands like Ryobi) which you also have to feed with petrol on top of it (plus it makes noise, stinks the place up, does not kick in automatically and is bad for the environment).



How long have you had it? I had one of those years ago and it kept failing. Luckily Game kept replacing them, think I went through about 3 of them before the original warranty expired.

I've had it about 2 months or so only

 

[Scary_Turtle]

I have no idea if I'm doing this right but this is my setup.

- Bought a generator when the first load shedding started, I think its 4.something kva and back then it was dirt cheap.
- Turn off mains, geyser and stove/oven.
- Connect a plug from the genny to a plug socket in my house.
- Run genny and house has power.

Haven't blown anything yet or lost any electronics and think I have been doing this since 2014/15.

I have wired a small light into the mains so I know when the municipal supply is coming in. Going through all the effort of making holes in your wall etc sounds like you should just buy a proper genny and run your whole house.

Biggest problem is my neighbors get agitated when load shedding goes on after 10pm.

 

[Lupus]

I have no idea if I'm doing this right but this is my setup.

- Bought a generator when the first load shedding started, I think its 4.something kva and back then it was dirt cheap.
- Turn off mains, geyser and stove/oven.
- Connect a plug from the genny to a plug socket in my house.
- Run genny and house has power.

Haven't blown anything yet or lost any electronics and think I have been doing this since 2014/15.

I have wired a small light into the mains so I know when the municipal supply is coming in. Going through all the effort of making holes in your wall etc sounds like you should just buy a proper genny and run your whole house.

Biggest problem is my neighbors get agitated when load shedding goes on after 10pm.

Suicide cord, not safe at all

 

[bwana]

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www.makro.co.za

For what you want to power, this will do, I've got one and it powers a 32", Xbox one, 50", Mibox, router and two dstv decoders.
It's also powered a monitor and laptop for 4.5 hours no problems, used about 1.5l.
It's a little louder than a lawn mower and I have it in the garage with the exhaust facing out the door.
With the right fuel to oil mixture it didn't smoke much at all.

I had one of those - the output was all over the place though. Almost put me off Ryobi.

I have no idea if I'm doing this right but this is my setup.

- Bought a generator when the first load shedding started, I think its 4.something kva and back then it was dirt cheap.
- Turn off mains, geyser and stove/oven.
- Connect a plug from the genny to a plug socket in my house.
- Run genny and house has power.

I think the biggest risk from backfeeding is the change over from generator back to mains. Better to get a change over switch installed.

 

[deweyzeph]

Getting a generator just to run your TV and electronics is insane. Get a decent 1KW power trolley with a pure sine wave inverter and you'll have all the power you need for hours on end.

 

[Lupus]

I had one of those - the output was all over the place though. Almost put me off Ryobi.

I think the biggest risk from backfeeding is the change over from generator back to mains. Better to get a change over switch installed.

Output in the first minute or 2 seems all over the place, but after that seems to steady out.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

A ups is really only designed to give time to turn computers off, not run equipment for hours. Hence interest in a generator.

Nope...not true.

My UPS runs my TV, media player,internet and my desktop and 2 screens. I don't even notice it when the power goes off.

You just have to have enough batteries attached to it, so that the DoD does not damage the batteries.

I have a Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS with 6 batteries in Series.

It's only on 15% load so battery time is more than 9 hours. Luckily in CT we get just over 2 hours of shedding at a time so my DoD is minimal.
Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS

 

[Lucy Parot]

Ryobi 650 W 2-Stroke Petrol Generator | Makro

Unbeatable Ryobi 650 W 2-Stroke Petrol Generator Deal. Shop Online or Locate Your Nearest Makro Store. ✓ Reliable Delivery ✓ Easy Returns ✓ Many Ways to Pay!

www.makro.co.za

For what you want to power, this will do, I've got one and it powers a 32", Xbox one, 50", Mibox, router and two dstv decoders.
It's also powered a monitor and laptop for 4.5 hours no problems, used about 1.5l.
It's a little louder than a lawn mower and I have it in the garage with the exhaust facing out the door.
With the right fuel to oil mixture it didn't smoke much at all.

That seems promising. However, we did look at the Ryobi RG 950 on their website but were concerned Were put off a little by Ryobi generators when we saw loads being brought in for repair, and being taken out, whilst standing in the parts queue during the last major loadshedding in Jan/Feb time. They were all bigger cage type ones though. How do you connect the power? Is it a three pin/ two pin type of thing? Do you have to go through some sort of smoothing device like a ups

Nope...not true.

My UPS runs my TV, media player,internet and my desktop and 2 screens. I don't even notice it when the power goes off.

You just have to have enough batteries attached to it, so that the DoD does not damage the batteries.

I have a Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS with 6 batteries in Series.

It's only on 15% load so battery time is more than 9 hours. Luckily in CT we get just over 2 hours of shedding at a time so my DoD is minimal.
Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS Riello Sentinal Pro 2200VA UPS

Thanks everyone. Lots of inputs that will have to explore later to answer correctly. However in reply to the questions about what type of batteries they were, they came as standard with the Ellies 2kva UPS(FBI2000W) . From memory they were 2 x 100Ah. Just looked now and the replacement is in Builders (Excis FMF 102) for R2900 each. Still got the inverter and battery box but dumped the spent batteries with Willards. We had no problem with the performance initially, but it just did not last. The UPS became pointless as soon as they could not last the standard 4.5 hours of load shedding, hence the interest in something that will, and should continue to do so.