What do you want recruiters to know?

CamiKaze

Honorary Master
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
13,553
having no knowledge of the position. Nigel Frank is one such company
Matthew Towers is one such person, working for Nigel Frank... Oh I hate this guy so much.... sooooo daaaaammmmnnnn muuuuccccchhhh.
(Doesn't even bother giving feedback on interviews. The most valuable part of failed interviews.)


And people like this:
  • Well... does freelancing count as experience?
  • Anya Andrushkova (another Nigel Frank C*nt): nope sorry
Didn't even bother looking at my profile...
 
Last edited:

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
7,332
Matthew Towers is one such person, working for Nigel Frank... Oh I hate this guy so much.... sooooo daaaaammmmnnnn muuuuccccchhhh.


And people like this:
  • Well... does freelancing count as experience?
  • nope sorry
Didn't even bother looking at my profile...
Thanks for that... yes I know him... Blocked his office landline, his cell, his email address.
There's another one out there that also worked for them, but seems to have gone solo and took the "client list" with him... Matt McNestry... f**king spammer, he spams me with positions on my GMail. Even though I've told him to stop.
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
Matthew Towers is one such person, working for Nigel Frank... Oh I hate this guy so much.... sooooo daaaaammmmnnnn muuuuccccchhhh.


And people like this:
  • Well... does freelancing count as experience?
  • nope sorry
Didn't even bother looking at my profile...
I hear you *shakes head*.

But seriously, you have the power, in terms of the privacy laws to bring unethical firms to book.
 

xrapidx

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
36,956
Matthew Towers is one such person, working for Nigel Frank... Oh I hate this guy so much.... sooooo daaaaammmmnnnn muuuuccccchhhh.


And people like this:
  • Well... does freelancing count as experience?
  • Anya Andrushkova (another Nigel Frank C*nt): nope sorry
Didn't even bother looking at my profile...
Seems they're a repeat offender.

Of the 400 contacts I had on linkedin - about 120 were recruiters - after my experience with the above, I purged my contacts of all recruiters except about 5 who I've had positive experiences with. (they're either company internal, or international)
 

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
7,332
Seems they're a repeat offender.

Of the 400 contacts I had on linkedin - about 120 were recruiters - after my experience with the above, I purged my contacts of all recruiters except about 5 who I've had positive experiences with. (they're either company internal, or international)
Nigel Frank... bro, I honestly believe they're not a recruiter but rather an information harvesting operation because I made the mistake of applying for a position long ago and my stuff ended up with them. Ever since that date, I have had people cold calling me on my phone from other agencies, e-mail spam, LinkedIn spamming, and of course, people leaving their employ and going solo and then spamming my Gmail with a newsletter about "hot positions in IT" every 2-3 months
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
Seems they're a repeat offender.

Of the 400 contacts I had on linkedin - about 120 were recruiters - after my experience with the above, I purged my contacts of all recruiters except about 5 who I've had positive experiences with. (they're either company internal, or international)
What constitutes a positive experience?
 

Kosmik

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
19,498
I hear what you're saying, Kosmik, do I understand right that a developer would want, in terms of their career path, specifically diverse category experience? But for how many years do you diversify? I am seeing senior people who follows a set career path settle on a category after 15/20 years or so - E-commerce, Investment, Finance, Education tend to be popular choices.
You're not quite following. If you were to ask the average developer, they won't see themselves as IT developer in finance, e-commerce, investment etc. They will say mobile , ERP , Chat , machine learning , AI , automation, Business Inteligance, integration etc. The more senior a person gets , the more it is about being able to apply varied solutions to problems, regardless of the specificity of the problem ( and by problem I mean field ). Lets take block chain for example. Block chain is a specific tech category, it can be implemented by multiple tech stacks and can be used in a similar manner by multiple industry fields : banking, insurance, medical , logistics etc.

Field ie: field of industry of the company, is not relevant to development. It's an asset if you have worked and understand the business principles behind it but its not something you would find developers "specializing" in.
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
You're not quite following. If you were to ask the average developer, they won't see themselves as IT developer in finance, e-commerce, investment etc. They will say mobile , ERP , Chat , machine learning , AI , automation, Business Inteligance, integration etc. The more senior a person gets , the more it is about being able to apply varied solutions to problems, regardless of the specificity of the problem ( and by problem I mean field ). Lets take block chain for example. Block chain is a specific tech category, it can be implemented by multiple tech stacks and can be used in a similar manner by multiple industry fields : banking, insurance, medical , logistics etc.

Field ie: field of industry of the company, is not relevant to development. It's an asset if you have worked and understand the business principles behind it but its not something you would find developers "specializing" in.
again, thank you for the valuable information. This makes sense. When business comes to us to find people, they are making mention of categories in background and experience expectations, and yet I am not seeing developers prioritising it in their profiles, and I have wondered why there is disparity.
 

xrapidx

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
36,956
What constitutes a positive experience?
The ones I've met with who are upfront with information - and don't mess you around. They can match your skill set to proper positions, you mentioned .NET developer - which is a perfect example, I did that 13 years ago - yet some recruiters think its still a relevant skill.

Also - if I read a job spec - and tell you I'm not right for the position for whatever - I don't need a recruiter going on about it, I have a recruiter that sends me a job spec about three times a year, and immediately accepts my response for either more information, or - it's not right for me.
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
The ones I've met with who are upfront with information - and don't mess you around. They can match your skill set to proper positions, you mentioned .NET developer - which is a perfect example, I did that 13 years ago - yet some recruiters think its still a relevant skill.

Also - if I read a job spec - and tell you I'm not right for the position for whatever - I don't need a recruiter going on about it, I have a recruiter that sends me a job spec about three times a year, and immediately accepts my response for either more information, or - it's not right for me.
Yes, I understand this. Thank you so much for your time, it really is much appreciated!
 

V1rus

Active Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
86
I want recruiters to know that it won't be long before Offerzen takes all their jobs .:D
 

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
7,332
Another one... clearly cannot read that I am not in the job market..
1552026335727.png
 

deweyzeph

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
7,191
My two pet hates when it comes to IT recruitment:

1) Not mentioning the salary in the advert - "Market related salary" does not tell me anything. Don't waste my time by not mentioning the salary. If I was looking for a new dev job I would not even bother responding to any position that does not mention what the salary is.

2) Advertising for a "full stack developer" - There is no such thing! In my 17 years in the industry I have never come across a true full stack developer. I have met many developers who claim to be one, but they are either a backend developer who dabbles in a bit of front-end development or a front-end developer who dabbles in a bit of backend development. The development stack now is so huge that it is impossible for one person to be a true expert in the entire stack from front-end to back-end. It's like a doctor claiming that they are a GP, surgeon, dermatologist, dentist and pediatrician all rolled into one. You would surely view anyone making such a claim with suspicion, so why would you think it's any different in the development field?
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
I want recruiters to know that it won't be long before Offerzen takes all their jobs .:D
CamiKaze, thanks for your response. The pie is big enough for places like offerzen/angel.co/indeed/upwork and other models. Everyone has a different career path, not everyone wants to be in management, for instance. Offerzen has its place, and specialists still require specialists to find them.
 

cguy

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
5,189
CamiKaze, thanks for your response. The pie is big enough for places like offerzen/angel.co/indeed/upwork and other models. Everyone has a different career path, not everyone wants to be in management, for instance. Offerzen has its place, and specialists still require specialists to find them.
Yup. In the US there are similar sites like hired.com. It makes no sense for me to use any of them.
- Just putting my CV on such a site, will cause my employer to have a coronary
- Publishing my compensation requirements would cause both some of my colleagues and employer to have a coronary
- Industry news Sites that snoop this will have a field day, once again, coronarys all round
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
My two pet hates when it comes to IT recruitment:

1) Not mentioning the salary in the advert - "Market related salary" does not tell me anything. Don't waste my time by not mentioning the salary. If I was looking for a new dev job I would not even bother responding to any position that does not mention what the salary is.

2) Advertising for a "full stack developer" - There is no such thing! In my 17 years in the industry I have never come across a true full stack developer. I have met many developers who claim to be one, but they are either a backend developer who dabbles in a bit of front-end development or a front-end developer who dabbles in a bit of backend development. The development stack now is so huge that it is impossible for one person to be a true expert in the entire stack from front-end to back-end. It's like a doctor claiming that they are a GP, surgeon, dermatologist, dentist and pediatrician all rolled into one. You would surely view anyone making such a claim with suspicion, so why would you think it's any different in the development field?
deweyzeph, Thank you for your response, much appreciated.

1) Yes, I understand your frustration with salaries. When a person changes a job, they want to ensure that they are receiving a handsome offer that will be inviting to them. I once dropped a client who made an offer that is less than the candidate asked. I could not believe it. When someone says X, we don't mean Y! This is matter is so important that it is covered under ethics in my course.

2) I am frustrated by that term too - educating recruiters to find the skills and not just the job descriptions. Thank you for reiterating this. Again it comes down to reading a profile and reading a job description and understanding what the person in that role will be doing vs what they are doing now and determining a match.
The development stack now is so huge that it is impossible for one person to be a true expert in the entire stack from front-end to back-end. It's like a doctor claiming that they are a GP said:
- I want to quote this directly with your permission (I won't identify you), please?
 

CamiKaze

Honorary Master
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
13,553
deweyzeph, Thank you for your response, much appreciated.

1) Yes, I understand your frustration with salaries. When a person changes a job, they want to ensure that they are receiving a handsome offer that will be inviting to them. I once dropped a client who made an offer that is less than the candidate asked. I could not believe it. When someone says X, we don't mean Y! This is matter is so important that it is covered under ethics in my course.
Also, I got phoned for a other job yesterday... The upfront salary was nice, only for the recruiter to tell me that I can only get a 10% increase on my current. NOW WHY THE F### did you post such a handsome salary in the beginning?
Why not negotiate on what the candidate brings to the table instead of luring them in with a big figure just to tell them, no, sorry... you will look greedy for asking what they are offering... MuthaF###...

This thread is going to spoil the happiness that I have planned for this weekend.
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
97
Yup. In the US there are similar sites like hired.com. It makes no sense for me to use any of them.
- Just putting my CV on such a site, will cause my employer to have a coronary
- Publishing my compensation requirements would cause both some of my colleagues and employer to have a coronary
- Industry news Sites that snoop this will have a field day, once again, coronarys all round
^^ And this is why at a certain level, an expert will establish a professional relationship based with reputable agents - several across the professional interests of the said expert.

(And conversely, if the reputation of the (let's call it the) developer was damaged by their own actions - ie. being overtly rude to recruiters, cheating of technical tests and so forth - who all network with each other, and HR by the way - ultimately results in seniors who cannot find new roles, because reputable agents have to send professional reputable experts to their clients.)
 
Top