What do you want recruiters to know?

ArtyLoop

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Dear OP
Just admit that the recruitment industry is a dirty one and is in need of regulation and possibly a major shake-up
 

sumacveneneux

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Also, I got phoned for a other job yesterday... The upfront salary was nice, only for the recruiter to tell me that I can only get a 10% increase on my current. NOW WHY THE F### did you post such a handsome salary in the beginning?
Why not negotiate on what the candidate brings to the table instead of luring them in with a big figure just to tell them, no, sorry... you will look greedy for asking what they are offering... MuthaF###...

This thread is going to spoil the happiness that I have planned for this weekend.
Camikaze - what?? :X3::X3: I'm giggling just a little - but it's a sad giggle. That is totally crazy. At least you know that this is not a company you want to work for, because what if expecting a proper rais is also seen as 'greedy". You dodged a bullet there imo
 

ArtyLoop

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Camikaze - what?? :X3::X3: I'm giggling just a little - but it's a sad giggle. That is totally crazy. At least you know that this is not a company you want to work for, because what if expecting a proper rais is also seen as 'greedy". You dodged a bullet there imo
Why are you laughing... Its true. I've had this situation twice.
 

deweyzeph

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Also, I got phoned for a other job yesterday... The upfront salary was nice, only for the recruiter to tell me that I can only get a 10% increase on my current. NOW WHY THE F### did you post such a handsome salary in the beginning?
Why not negotiate on what the candidate brings to the table instead of luring them in with a big figure just to tell them, no, sorry... you will look greedy for asking what they are offering... MuthaF###...

This thread is going to spoil the happiness that I have planned for this weekend.
That's my 3rd pet peeve. My current salary has got absolutely nothing to do with you. If I ask for X amount, that is how much I want. I don't care if it's more than 10% of my current salary. That is how much I want. If you can't pay me that I will move on to someone who can.
 

ArtyLoop

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That's my 3rd pet peeve. My current salary has got absolutely nothing to do with you. If I ask for X amount, that is how much I want. I don't care if it's more than 10% of my current salary. That is how much I want. If you can't pay me that I will move on to someone who can.
Damn straight!
My pet peeve is asking for payslip. When they do that... you can just know... lowball attempt incoming.
 

sumacveneneux

Active Member
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Feb 14, 2012
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I find this funny. You have to do difficult tests only to find out that once you land the job, the people that gave you the test can't do it themselves. So they probably cheated their way into the company before.
What makes you think that the people who send you the tests are the people who look at the tests? It's usually a technical manager who looks at those tests, and the tests are extremely telling, and let me tell you - there is a good reason for them too.

Once you've completed projects, tech tests aren't necessary anymore, because you have published proof of your skills.
 

sumacveneneux

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That's my 3rd pet peeve. My current salary has got absolutely nothing to do with you. If I ask for X amount, that is how much I want. I don't care if it's more than 10% of my current salary. That is how much I want. If you can't pay me that I will move on to someone who can.
Exactly
 

deweyzeph

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Damn straight!
My pet peeve is asking for payslip. When they do that... you can just know... lowball attempt incoming.
I used to just tell them that my payslip is confidential and I can't share it. As far as I'm concerned a company needs to judge how much to pay you by your skills and experience, not by how much you are currently earning.
 

CamiKaze

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Camikaze - what?? :X3::X3: I'm giggling just a little - but it's a sad giggle. That is totally crazy. At least you know that this is not a company you want to work for, because what if expecting a proper rais is also seen as 'greedy". You dodged a bullet there imo
Oh and btw, I did not apply for this job, the recruiter came looking for me.
 

ArtyLoop

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Oh and btw, I did not apply for this job, the recruiter came looking for me.
They usually do, this is how it works nowadays... Cold calling... fark knows how they got my number.. Oh wait... Nigel Frank...
 

CamiKaze

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What makes you think that the people who send you the tests are the people who look at the tests? It's usually a technical manager who looks at those tests, and the tests are extremely telling, and let me tell you - there is a good reason for them too.

Once you've completed projects, tech tests aren't necessary anymore, because you have published proof of your skills.
What makes you think that a Technical Manager is technical? That title means jack.
They have their own JD and mandate.
 
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sumacveneneux

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What makes you think that a Technical Manager is technical? That title means jack.
They have their own JD and mandate.
What I mean is, a senior technical person needs to grade tech tests, so usually a senior dev can do intermediate and junior tech assessments- that means your first impression into the team is your tech assessment.

In fact, nowadays, it's mostly done electronically - it checks for copying, plagiarism and other dishonesty. It separates the wheat from the chaff quite effectively.

As a side -note - If you've done assessments yourself, or you finalised projects which you can refer to, the employer may set aside the need for an assessment. You can just refer the recruiter to the results.
 

skimread

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What do I want recruiters to know?
- That South African recruiters are so outdated and unprofessional that foreign companies use less worse spammy foreign recruitment companies to source local talent
- That South African recruiters waste your time. They post generic jobs that gives you zero insight into the company or what the job entails. When you ask them they say you can ask them in the interview. Recruiters put copywritten detail which the client didn't tell them i.e. rockstar developer etc.
- Generic job postings like Java developer with 2 years experience ring alarm bells. It's like it's a fake job and the recruiter wants to build up a database of candidates and employers from references
- Stop asking for referrals of other candidates. It's like Hi Sir. I got your phone number from our database. Here is a position half your salary in another city. Do you perhaps know someone who is looking for a job?
- That South African recruiters post whatever clients tell them i.e. low salary e.g. C# Developer with 5 years exp and a degree 15K. Why not just explain in your post why one job salary is so low perhaps it has other advantages or disadvantages
- That contracting is a thing. Sure a recruiter might get lots of money from a permanent employment but that is short term thinking. You will not build a business with that and won't get referrals
- South African recruiters have shitty or no websites and don't use social media properly. IT's like they will invest zero money into their business. Everything is income. More short term thinking.
- South African recruiters have no idea to list exclusions. BEE requirements. BEE Only, BEE preferred, BEE not an issue at all. Age between X and Y . Age no concern.
- Give the salary from the start. Not negotiable when it has a low upper ceiling. I go to interview and said salary is half my current salary. Why did you waste my time from the start
- That remote work is a thing. List it in all your jobs. Fulltime onsite, One day a week, First month etc.
- That we know they have zero tech term knowledge and don't want to look stupid.
- If there is such a shortage in the market then why are there so few jobs posted on mybb IT Jobs? Something is fishy. It's like recruiters don't want to be called out
- Location is important. Don' t say Johannesburg. List the damn suburb. Big difference between Midrand and CBD
 

ArtyLoop

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Dec 18, 2017
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What do I want recruiters to know?
- That South African recruiters are so outdated and unprofessional that foreign companies use less worse spammy foreign recruitment companies to source local talent
- That South African recruiters waste your time. They post generic jobs that gives you zero insight into the company or what the job entails. When you ask them they say you can ask them in the interview. Recruiters put copywritten detail which the client didn't tell them i.e. rockstar developer etc.
- Generic job postings like Java developer with 2 years experience ring alarm bells. It's like it's a fake job and the recruiter wants to build up a database of candidates and employers from references
- Stop asking for referrals of other candidates. It's like Hi Sir. I got your phone number from our database. Here is a position half your salary in another city. Do you perhaps know someone who is looking for a job?
- That South African recruiters post whatever clients tell them i.e. low salary e.g. C# Developer with 5 years exp and a degree 15K. Why not just explain in your post why one job salary is so low perhaps it has other advantages or disadvantages
- That contracting is a thing. Sure a recruiter might get lots of money from a permanent employment but that is short term thinking. You will not build a business with that and won't get referrals
- South African recruiters have shitty or no websites and don't use social media properly. IT's like they will invest zero money into their business. Everything is income. More short term thinking.
- South African recruiters have no idea to list exclusions. BEE requirements. BEE Only, BEE preferred, BEE not an issue at all. Age between X and Y . Age no concern.
- Give the salary from the start. Not negotiable when it has a low upper ceiling. I go to interview and said salary is half my current salary. Why did you waste my time from the start
- That remote work is a thing. List it in all your jobs. Fulltime onsite, One day a week, First month etc.
- That we know they have zero tech term knowledge and don't want to look stupid.
- If there is such a shortage in the market then why are there so few jobs posted on mybb IT Jobs? Something is fishy. It's like recruiters don't want to be called out
- Location is important. Don' t say Johannesburg. List the damn suburb. Big difference between Midrand and CBD
You have my respect. Awesome post!
 

skimread

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Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
8,961
What I mean is, a senior technical person needs to grade tech tests, so usually a senior dev can do intermediate and junior tech assessments- that means your first impression into the team is your tech assessment.

In fact, nowadays, it's mostly done electronically - it checks for copying, plagiarism and other dishonesty. It separates the wheat from the chaff quite effectively.

As a side -note - If you've done assessments yourself, or you finalised projects which you can refer to, the employer may set aside the need for an assessment. You can just refer the recruiter to the results.
I personally like assessments. In SA lying on CV has become so common place, you have so many levels of discrimination that at least you have something unbiased to measure candidates.

I think that is why you have a local obsession with asking for salary slips. It's not to see what your previous salary is, it is to catch a candidate lying about having experience when they have none.
 

eg2505

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
16,542
What do I want recruiters to know?
- That South African recruiters are so outdated and unprofessional that foreign companies use less worse spammy foreign recruitment companies to source local talent
- That South African recruiters waste your time. They post generic jobs that gives you zero insight into the company or what the job entails. When you ask them they say you can ask them in the interview. Recruiters put copywritten detail which the client didn't tell them i.e. rockstar developer etc.
- Generic job postings like Java developer with 2 years experience ring alarm bells. It's like it's a fake job and the recruiter wants to build up a database of candidates and employers from references
- Stop asking for referrals of other candidates. It's like Hi Sir. I got your phone number from our database. Here is a position half your salary in another city. Do you perhaps know someone who is looking for a job?
- That South African recruiters post whatever clients tell them i.e. low salary e.g. C# Developer with 5 years exp and a degree 15K. Why not just explain in your post why one job salary is so low perhaps it has other advantages or disadvantages
- That contracting is a thing. Sure a recruiter might get lots of money from a permanent employment but that is short term thinking. You will not build a business with that and won't get referrals
- South African recruiters have shitty or no websites and don't use social media properly. IT's like they will invest zero money into their business. Everything is income. More short term thinking.
- South African recruiters have no idea to list exclusions. BEE requirements. BEE Only, BEE preferred, BEE not an issue at all. Age between X and Y . Age no concern.
- Give the salary from the start. Not negotiable when it has a low upper ceiling. I go to interview and said salary is half my current salary. Why did you waste my time from the start
- That remote work is a thing. List it in all your jobs. Fulltime onsite, One day a week, First month etc.
- That we know they have zero tech term knowledge and don't want to look stupid.
- If there is such a shortage in the market then why are there so few jobs posted on mybb IT Jobs? Something is fishy. It's like recruiters don't want to be called out
- Location is important. Don' t say Johannesburg. List the damn suburb. Big difference between Midrand and CBD
estate agents, used car salesmen,insurance brokers, and IT recruiters, sound familiar?

ALL Sales jobs, that require quotas and hustling in order to get anywhere, all about the bottom line. nothing to do with skills almost like those guys selling coat hangers at the robots.

little skill involved, just persistence,persistence and more persistence, world away from most IT guys, who actually use their brains to SOLVE real world problems,
like in support, one cant just fix problems with persistence, you got to come up with working solutions, or development, you got to solve for X,
system is doing X how do I get it to do Y, or people want to do A, how do I get system to do this.

different mindset is involved. 100% agree?


why we even have so many recruiters, I will never know, they just waste so much of your time its insane,
but one cant blame all of them for it, they focus is on other things, and the 2 worlds are too different.

Ive taken a pragmatic approach, most recruiters don't know one end of a mouse from the other,
TAKE that into account, and dont get mad they dont know what dotnet framework and windows 10 really are.


same time, would you rather call 20 companies to market people all day every day?
take things like that into consideration, recruiters annoy me a lot,
but I do my best to stay calm and collected, and answer their (pointless) questions as best as I can, as they are the gatekeeprs,
unnessasary, 100% agree, but thats how this industry works,

even other skills like boilermakers and fitters have recruiters nowadays.

what can you learn (as a recruiter), at least for me, ive already filled in 50 different "skills matrix" and already done 50 different personality tests,
make it quick and to the point, all the info is already on the CV, just confirm a few things, and let us be on our way.

NO need for a photo or a payslip, those are pretty pointless.
 

skimread

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
8,961
Thanks for that... yes I know him... Blocked his office landline, his cell, his email address.
There's another one out there that also worked for them, but seems to have gone solo and took the "client list" with him... Matt McNestry... f**king spammer, he spams me with positions on my GMail. Even though I've told him to stop.
I don't mind those emails. At least they post in your email their positions with details that you know what the job is about. Even if I don't apply it gives me an idea what local companies want and willing to pay.
 

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
7,347
I don't mind those emails. At least they post in your email their positions with details that you know what the job is about. Even if I don't apply it gives me an idea what local companies want and willing to pay.
In my case those emails are BS, that's the problem.
 

skimread

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
8,961
estate agents, used car salesmen,insurance brokers, and IT recruiters, sound familiar?

ALL Sales jobs, that require quotas and hustling in order to get anywhere, all about the bottom line. nothing to do with skills almost like those guys selling coat hangers at the robots.

little skill involved, just persistence,persistence and more persistence, world away from most IT guys, who actually use their brains to SOLVE real world problems,
like in support, one cant just fix problems with persistence, you got to come up with working solutions, or development, you got to solve for X,
system is doing X how do I get it to do Y, or people want to do A, how do I get system to do this.

different mindset is involved. 100% agree?


why we even have so many recruiters, I will never know, they just waste so much of your time its insane,
but one cant blame all of them for it, they focus is on other things, and the 2 worlds are too different.

Ive taken a pragmatic approach, most recruiters don't know one end of a mouse from the other,
TAKE that into account, and dont get mad they dont know what dotnet framework and windows 10 really are.


same time, would you rather call 20 companies to market people all day every day?
take things like that into consideration, recruiters annoy me a lot,
but I do my best to stay calm and collected, and answer their (pointless) questions as best as I can, as they are the gatekeeprs,
unnessasary, 100% agree, but thats how this industry works,

even other skills like boilermakers and fitters have recruiters nowadays.

what can you learn (as a recruiter), at least for me, ive already filled in 50 different "skills matrix" and already done 50 different personality tests,
make it quick and to the point, all the info is already on the CV, just confirm a few things, and let us be on our way.

NO need for a photo or a payslip, those are pretty pointless.
Employers and candidates have limited time to be wasted by generic cold calling. Everyone uses a smartphone to access info. People find jobs through Certifications, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, github, stackoverlow, slack, portfolio sites, job site aggregators etc. Cold calling is dying out.
 
Last edited:

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
7,347
Employers and candidates have limited time to be wasted by generic cold calling. Everyone uses a smartphone to access info. People find jobs through Certifications, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, github, stackoverlow, slack, portfolio sites, job site aggregators etc. Cold calling is dying out.
Not one recruiter in SA has ever mentioned, referred, or looked at my Github code.
Why? We know all why, they're clueless.
 
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