what is the country coming to?!

[shadowfox]

I said poverty was an excuse.

I wish people would stop blaming violence on TV and gaming. Really. That is a dead horse. And besides ... poor people don't really have a lot of access to those things.

Yes, poverty is certainly a cause. Less education means less means to crime prevention, less intellectual freedom leads to a more cultural society, and cultures can't all be good, especially with so many violence on TV....

That made absolutely no sense.

My point is - you can be the dumbest, most uneducated brick on the block - but that doesn't result in you naturally being a bad person. All you need to know is the difference between right and wrong. And that comes from your parents.

So ... main cause, reason and effect - parents. That's where it begins, and that is where it ends. There are as many well off criminals as there are poor criminals - trust me - the big syndicates usually have a fat cat sitting on top. The rich guys are just better at not being caught.

 

[VertigoZA]

Why we do not have the death penalty:


What if:
1. the evidence was forged?

2. the crime was not understood?

3. the law was wrong?

4. It costs more to execute a person, than to imprison that person for life.

5. We don't really understand what punishment death is, especially from a philosophical point of view.

If we lived in a 1st world country I'd totally agree with you... but we are way way way way beyond that... Drastic times call for drastic measures.

 

[shadowfox]

So why not then do research on the parents before birth: education, criminal records and such

They probably had bad parents as well ... it's usually a knock-on effect. Bad parents create bad children.

I'll quote an example from personal experience.

I'm from a middle class family - white (I'm not making a racist point here - I need to illustrate my point), went to school and matriculated.

Had a bloke in my class - also white - middle class family - was in school with me for 10 years.

I'm working - he's in jail - I don't know for what. I don't particularly care.

So - same backgrounds - same ethnicity and language - same schooling and education - same socio-economic profile. Yet he's in jail for committing a crime and I'm not. There goes your whole poverty argument.

But I can tell you one thing - he had horrible parents. He was allowed to do as he pleased - and treated his mom like dirt. Had the foulest mouth I ever encountered on a kid.

Make of that what you will, but this is turning into a pointless argument. I'm done with this thread.

 

[noxibox]

the accused and proven guilty from society as he does not fit in or belong there.

Does not mean they're guilty. Mistakes happen.

Implementing capital punishment is fine, but you cannot easily declare it simpler, cheaper and more effective. Trials will be much longer and many appeals will have to be allowed. The accused will have to get the best lawyers in the country, at taxpayer expense. Maybe it is ultimately cheaper, but if you're expecting any near term results from using execution don't hold your breath. We may eventually get to execute someone, but they'll be sitting in jail for 10-15 years while the trial is ongoing. Plenty of opportunity for some clown to let them get out.

 

[Blaze786]

i know, but what i said there was related to it's birth policies. the death penalty it doesn't change the comparison between china before one-child, and china during the policy.

Responsible parenting is a must. We may not understand what lead these people into this. Yes they are fully guilty, but they could have been pressured over years into this mindset.

Are you silly in the head? I mean seriously, we all have problems, having problems does not give ANYONE the right to go around raping and murdering innocent people that never did anything to either directly or indirectly been the cause of the problems!!!!!

 

[mac_mac74]

Why we do not have the death penalty:


What if:
1. the evidence was forged?

2. the crime was not understood?

3. the law was wrong?

4. It costs more to execute a person, than to imprison that person for life.

5. We don't really understand what punishment death is, especially from a philosophical point of view.

The ANC will never agree to killing off most of their members?

 

[Necuno]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2476511,00.html

this is why we need the death penalty!!!

before that we need a proper police force with decent equipment and facilities and then overhual of the justice system, courts and related.

without those in place its quite worthless to have a death penalty.

 

[Blaze786]

before that we need a proper police force with decent equipment and facilities and then overhual of the justice system, courts and related.

without those in place its quite worthless to have a death penalty.

Very true, having a death penalty, but no one to put to death [due to lack of policeman, etc. being unable to catch any perps.] is kind of pointless, but still I thnk it would instill a bit of fear in the populace?

 

[STS]

The ANC will never agree to killing off most of their members?

i am 100% for the death penalty. if someone kills your family, the last thing you will want is to be nice to them. but by 'most', i'll assume you're meaning more than 50%, which is not a very good estimation. i don't agree with the ANC, but don't paint them or their members as criminals, everyone is an individual.

 

[Blaze786]

i am 100% for the death penalty. if someone kills your family, the last thing you will want is to be nice to them. but by 'most', i'll assume you're meaning more than 50%, which is not a very good estimation. i don't agree with the ANC, but don't paint them or their members as criminals, everyone is an individual.

We are talking about the same ANC here? The ANC pretty much paint themselves, we don't have to do much.

 

[TheHiveMind]

i am 100% for the death penalty. if someone kills your family, the last thing you will want is to be nice to them. but by 'most', i'll assume you're meaning more than 50%, which is not a very good estimation. i don't agree with the ANC, but don't paint them or their members as criminals, everyone is an individual.

Hitler and his SS were not criminals either, you know why? Cause he owned the government, and governments decide who the criminals are.

 

[Blaze786]

Hitler and his SS were not criminals either, you know why? Cause he owned the government, and governments decide who the criminals are.

+100

 

[Necuno]

Very true, having a death penalty, but no one to put to death [due to lack of policeman, etc. being unable to catch any perps.] is kind of pointless, but still I thnk it would instill a bit of fear in the populace?

well, if you know you arn't going to get caught, not to face the actual punishment it or its going to fall through in court-

not even the worse kind of punishment which you can think of would have an effect.

 

[Blaze786]

well, if you know you arn't going to get caught, not to face the actual punishment it or its going to fall through in court-

not even the worse kind of punishment which you can think of would have an effect.

True, my thoughts were they make examples out of their current abundance of prisoners.

 

[BTTB]

I totally agree that the Death Penalty is barbaric and should not be part of our Society, but then neither should the perpetrators of these atrocities as if they are caught and found guilty and sentenced to life in jail the taxpayers foot the bill on the one hand for the rest of their miserable lives in prison plus the victims of their crimes will never be at peace knowing these perpetrators are alive in prison and for all we know could be released on parole a few years down the line due to many reasons like good behaviour and full and overcrowded prisons.

So sad. The human race has a long way to go before they can be considered humane.

 

[Blaze786]

I totally agree that the Death Penalty is barbaric and should not be part of our Society, but then neither should the perpetrators of these atrocities as if they are caught and found guilty and sentenced to life in jail the taxpayers foot the bill on the one hand for the rest of their miserable lives in prison plus the victims of their crimes will never be at peace knowing these perpetrators are alive in prison and for all we know could be released on parole a few years down the line due to many reasons like good behaviour and full and overcrowded prisons.

So sad. The human race has a long way to go before they can be considered humane.

I agree yes it is barbaric, but so is the crimes commited by said criminals. I feel the crime warrants the punishment. If you don't want to be put to death than don't go killing people. Although in my honest opinion the death penalty is way more humane than the manner in which these crimes are commited. I mean an injenction as opposed to rape and torture?