ToxicBunny

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Hlaudi needs to have the same damn treatment as far as I'm concerned.
 

Segg

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If a large amount of time has lapsed since the initial appointment and the employee's performance is satisfactory then I'd just issue them with a warning unless they rose to their current position through the usual kickbacks we have in the SA government
 

b166er

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If a large amount of time has lapsed since the initial appointment and the employee's performance is satisfactory then I'd just issue them with a warning unless they rose to their current position through the usual kickbacks we have in the SA government

So basically what you are saying is that you think it is OK to lie about your qualifications as long as you are not caught out?
 

ToxicBunny

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If a large amount of time has lapsed since the initial appointment and the employee's performance is satisfactory then I'd just issue them with a warning unless they rose to their current position through the usual kickbacks we have in the SA government

Crap...

If you lied to get your position and this comes out 15 or 20 yrs later, you should still get fired, and the company should have recourse to go after you for every cent that was paid to you as a salary.
 

ToxicBunny

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Why? If you've been a competent worker, what has the company lost?

You would never have been hired in the first place, so your competency is actually irrelevant to the issue.
 

[XC] Oj101

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Yeah, but you've proven you don't need the slip of paper saying you're OK to do whatever it is. I'd rather have someone unqualified with experience than someone with tonnes of qualifications but no experience or skill in applying his qualifications in the work environment. Hell, if I employed someone who lied about their qualifications and proved that he was as good or better than anyone else in a similar position that actually did have the required qualifications I'd be pretty darn impressed.
 

The_Unbeliever

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Crap...

If you lied to get your position and this comes out 15 or 20 yrs later, you should still get fired, and the company should have recourse to go after you for every cent that was paid to you as a salary.

Agreed. Even if you were a competent worker.

If you did not lie about your qualifications, and the company hired you, and you performed above and beyond all expectations, and worked yourself up the corporate ladder by doing honest work, and dealing honestly with all concerned, then it would be a different story.
 

Segg

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So basically what you are saying is that you think it is OK to lie about your qualifications as long as you are not caught out?

Not at all, if someone is performing as required but without the relevant qualifications then in my opinion their case should be reviewed on their performance, and I'd ask the question would someone with the required qualifications be any better, there would definitely have to be conciquinces, but if the job is being completed as needed it may be counter productive to fire the person and have to start the recruitment process again
 

The_Unbeliever

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Yeah, but you've proven you don't need the slip of paper saying you're OK to do whatever it is. I'd rather have someone unqualified with experience than someone with tonnes of qualifications but no experience or skill in applying his qualifications in the work environment. Hell, if I employed someone who lied about their qualifications and proved that he was as good or better than anyone else in a similar position that actually did have the required qualifications I'd be pretty darn impressed.

So you say it is fine for me to lie and say that I've got a degree in whatever from whichever university, and that I've got the experience that goes with it (even though I have none...)


I'll rather hire a honest worker who do not lie about his qualifications but have worked him/herself up the ladder than one who lie. What guarantee do you have that said worker will not lie any further?
 

ToxicBunny

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Yeah, but you've proven you don't need the slip of paper saying you're OK to do whatever it is. I'd rather have someone unqualified with experience than someone with tonnes of qualifications but no experience or skill in applying his qualifications in the work environment. Hell, if I employed someone who lied about their qualifications and proved that he was as good or better than anyone else in a similar position that actually did have the required qualifications I'd be pretty darn impressed.

The fact that the person lied to get the job, is enough for me to want to never deal with the person again, and to fire them. The lying is the issue here, not whether they can do the job or not.
 

ToxicBunny

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Not at all, if someone is performing as required but without the relevant qualifications then in my opinion their case should be reviewed on their performance, and I'd ask the question would someone with the required qualifications be any better, there would definitely have to be conciquinces, but if the job is being completed as needed it may be counter productive to fire the person and have to start the recruitment process again

If you hired them without the qualifications then all well and good, but they lied to get the job in the first place so what else have the lied about since then?
 

Segg

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If you hired them without the qualifications then all well and good, but they lied to get the job in the first place so what else have the lied about since then?

One would probably have to have a deep look into their work history, but I'm pretty sure if the job is being done, and to a satisfactory standard the lying and runarounds wouldn't be any more than other employees
 

[XC] Oj101

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So you say it is fine for me to lie and say that I've got a degree in whatever from whichever university, and that I've got the experience that goes with it (even though I have none...)

I didn't say anything about lying about experience. Regardless, if he's competent at his job to the same or greater extent than someone else with the qualifications, I'd think twice about outright firing him on the spot.
 

ToxicBunny

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One would probably have to have a deep look into their work history, but I'm pretty sure if the job is being done, and to a satisfactory standard the lying and runarounds wouldn't be any more than other employees

I would actually guess you would be very wrong. They showed a propensity to lie on a large scale just to get the job, they will have done the same many many times over just to keep the job or to keep the appearance of doing the job.

I didn't say anything about lying about experience. Regardless, if he's competent at his job to the same or greater extent than someone else with the qualifications, I'd think twice about outright firing him on the spot.

I personally wouldn't think twice about firing him and then going after them for the salary being paid.
 

Valerion

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I didn't say anything about lying about experience. Regardless, if he's competent at his job to the same or greater extent than someone else with the qualifications, I'd think twice about outright firing him on the spot.

Isn't this being discriminatory? If someone lies about qualifications, and gets a job as a filing clerk, then it comes out a day after he gets appointed, will you fire him? If so, on what grounds? Or will you give him time to prove that he can do the job? If so, how long? Now look at the case where it doesn't come out for 5 years. Will you fire him for the same offence?

Can you trust your filing clerk after 5 years to not have passed any sensitive information to the opposition? After all, he has told you straight out that he never has.
 

djdallas

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So let me get this straight: As long as you can do the job, it's okay not to be qualified.
What about pilots and doctors? This case is different, right? Sure. It's not lives at stake here; it's only billions of rands! So, where do we draw the line?

Anyway, there is a point that many people seem to be missing here: The allegations are that by misrepresenting his qualifications, he obtained a position he was not entitled to. Therefore, he should not have been considered as he did not meet the criteria. It follows then that someone else should have gotten the job. I personally think of lying about qualifications as stealing jobs from the people they rightfully belong to. Does that metaphor help anyone see the severity of the situation? It's not just a little white lie.

I am also under the (possibly mistaken) impression that the SABC COO position also requires a matric certificate. Probably a whole bunch of positions he has held in the SABC also do. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. However, it doesn't change the fact that he stands accused of getting to where he is by pretending to be something he is not. Look up the definition of fraud and see if it fits.
 
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Mortymoose

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I'm an oldish kinda guy now, not shy about my past, about seven years after Matric, I "adjusted" my certificate, did'nt like all those D's, yes! sure it was a pass, but I was a lost child at that particular junction of my life..... I did have one A on the certificate, Geography, did not even study for it, loved the subject, it was something that came naturally to me..... in fact the night before my Geography final I recall being locked up in the back of a boerevan somewhere in Long Street, pissed out of my skull...... anyhow, I only got to "test" the adjusted certificate out once..... never needed to use it again, went into my own business and never looked back, from a personal perspective , I do not read much into qualifications, I believe that the global education system is skewed and would rather employ a person that is capable of doing the job the way I want and not because he has a string of certificates behind his name...... seen many a professional dick work on the mines up here that could'nt perform , even though they had this and that degree behind them, whereas there was always some low chargehand covering for him....

/Rant! Rant! Rant!
 
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