What the courts said after a South African employee was fired for posting racist comments on Facebook

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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113,634
Ag shem...

Running the gamut of standard excuses "My phone was hacked", "Its a political statement", "I was doing it cos I thought my favourite leader was being insulted"...

Waiting for the claims that the CCMA Commisioner and Acting Judge are both racist.
 

pinball wizard

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...wonder what all the bleeding hearts who champion freedom of speech are going to say about this hate speech and the outcome thereof.
In no way would I be considered a bleeding heart. I am a 100% free speech advocate though. In this case, it appears the right to speech met the right to freedom of person, and society (the court we appointed) dealt with it, as is correct.
 

Fulcrum29

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He should have claimed it's poetry. It's perfectly legal if it's art.

There is always the political correct societal pursuit, call it robust and that it was a public call to have dialogue.
 

Fulcrum29

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‘[102] In South Africa, [however,] our policy choice is that utterances that have the effect of inciting people to cause harm is intolerable because of the social damage it wreaks and the effect it has on impeding a drive towards non-racialism. The idea that in a given society, members of a ‘subaltern’ group who disparage members of the ‘ascendant’ group should be treated differently from the circumstances were it the other way around has no place in the application of the Equality Act and would indeed subvert its very purpose. Our nation building project recognises a multitude of justifiable grievances derived from past oppression and racial domination. The value choice in the Constitution is that we must overcome the fissures among us. That cannot happen if, in debate, however robust, among ourselves, one section of the population is licensed to be condemnatory because its members were the victims of oppression, and the other section, understood to be, collectively, the former oppressors are disciplined to remain silent. The reality is that, given our history, White South Africans collectively have a lot to answer for. However, being relaxed about vituperative outbursts against Whites, on those grounds, contributes nothing of value towards promoting social cohesion. Reference has already been made to the risk of spiralling invective with uncertain but frightening possibilities. There can never be an excuse that absolves any one of us from accountability in terms of section 10(1). There may be surrounding circumstances which aggravate the utterances or mitigate the likelihood of incitement to cause harm; these are matters fall to dealt with when remedies are considered.

[103] To sum up, section 10 must be understood as an instrument to advance social cohesion. The “othering” of whites or any other racial identity, is inconsistent with our Constitutional values. These utterances, in as much as they, with dramatic allusions to the holocaust, set out a rationale to repudiate whites as unworthy and that they ought deservedly to be hounded out, marginalised, repudiated, and subjected to violence in the eyes of a reasonable reader, could indeed, be construed to incite the causation of harm in the form of reactions by Blacks to endorse those attitudes, reactions by Whites to demoralisation and rachet up the invective by responding in like manner, and thus by such developments, on a large enough scale, derail the transformation of South African Society.

Leaving this as a bookmark.
 

RyanPCMR

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Yet nothing happens to Malema.
This is what I have also been thinking. These judges and law experts tremble at the thought of ever having a case before them where they have to actually take a real stand against racism. They seem to all be kind of scared of taking an individual like Julius Malema to task for their social media utterances towards another racial group. Wish that an example can also be made of such politicians doing the same thing as what the person in the article did. Seems to me that being politicians somehow excludes these individuals from ever being found guilty of racial crimes and punished accordingly. We should all be treated equally under the law.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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...wonder what all the bleeding hearts who champion freedom of speech are going to say about this hate speech and the outcome thereof.
imagine Facebook censored it so fast we never knew what a vile racist this POS is?

THAT is the part to worry about, he must absolutely be allowed to display his vileness for the world to see, so that the world can act accordingly with that knowledge

in this case his employer, who most likely has contract clauses and/or policies warning against this type of thing, like most ZA employers, which he most likely agreed to ... acted in perfect harmony with freedom of speech
 

Jet-Fighter7700

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We should all be treated equally under the law.
problem is that NEVER happens, if you got the money, you can drag this out forever and ever,
since this guy was a peon and not very wealthy working at Clover, it got shot down,

racisim lives and if your Black, Blacks are more Racist than Whites.
 

JohnStarr

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imagine Facebook censored it so fast we never knew what a vile racist this POS is?

THAT is the part to worry about, he must absolutely be allowed to display his vileness for the world to see, so that the world can act accordingly with that knowledge

in this case his employer, who most likely has contract clauses and/or policies warning against this type of thing, like most ZA employers, which he most likely agreed to ... acted in perfect harmony with freedom of speech
No, it's not that. It's for the people who believe we have the right to say what we want, when we want irrespective of the outcome on others. You'll actually get so-called intellectual people who will support this person's ability to say what he did.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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you'll actually get so-called intellectual people who will support this person's ability to say what he did.
and as I was saying: I too support his ability to say it i.e. I disagree strongly that Facebook should be censoring it

luckily they didn't and now he can pay the price, so yeah I'm also in the camp saying freedom of speech is not the same thing as freedom from consequences

it can be quite a grey area, this example is fairly straight forward though imo (provided his legal agreement with his employer touched on it)
 

Conack

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No, it's not that. It's for the people who believe we have the right to say what we want, when we want irrespective of the outcome on others. You'll actually get so-called intellectual people who will support this person's ability to say what he did.
Yes indeed he should be allowed to say anything, and ofcourse also be punished for calling for a race genocide.

As NarrowBandFtw posted above, this is a straight forward case: Inciting the murder of a group of people in the country based due to racial hatred is a slam dunk situation of an illegal action.

If, however, he posted "Frack White people" - then there's no threat of violence or killing, and it should therefore not be punished in a courtroom as it doesn't necessarily break any laws that I'm aware of.

That said, an employer can absolutely warn/fire him for such a statement as he's made his racism known in public which undermines his relationship with colleagues and places his company in disrepute.
 
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