What & where to study for a degree in Software Development?

[joshjsawyer]

Hi. I have a matric certificate. Did maths, physics, bio, computers, afikaans en english. No matric exemption. I have 10 years experience with computers. grew up with them. And 5 years experience with programing out of own interest. A friend of mine from the Council says I should do a Bcom in IT. Can I do that? Is it that simple? And I don't want a general qualification. I want to specialize in progammig or software development. I'm actually not that familiar with the acronyms. All I know is she said Bcom is better than BTech. She also told me I should try UNISA. It's cheaper and you can study via correspondance. Money is an issue in my case, and having studied a year now in Cape Town via campus & lectures, I would much rather study correspondance. It fits with my lifestyle.

The type of IT I would like to get involved in is developing programs for companies and business. Possibly the banking industry. What should I study? I also want to study this part-time while I work as of next year.

 

[Sackboy]

Josh, a degree is quite hard work. Since you didn't do too well at school and unless there is an interesting and valid reason why this happened, I would say give that idea a pass because it only gets worse. The fact that you have experience with computers does help, but only in a small way since just about everyone has that nowadays. You may excel in the programming tasks, but there would be other subjects to take as well.

The IT banking industry in particular is very demanding. They often have their pick of the brightest graduates.

 

[Weasley]

If you choose to do a degree rather do Bsc(IT) than Bcom(IT) from UJ when i studied was more for business analyst/Developer Manager point of few than pure programing. And the only real hard part is the maths in Bsc

 

[fat.baztard]

I worked with a programmer who was basically self taught and to add the cherry, he was better than half the Uni educated programmers i've worked with. If its your passion and you're serious about it call up a few companies and ask to speak to someone. Compare what the various institutions are offering to tailor your questions. Live your dreams! All the best!

 

[perelson]

For practical education purposes (i.e. learning how to be a programmer and think logically) you can't beat a BTech degree. Done at one of the previous technikons (I think they are all part of universities now) you should be able to get the training you need. A BCom will focus on theoretical aspects, and from the sounds of things, you're more interested in practical application development.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Ignore all of the tertiary ed. advice that has been given thus far and get a job. A software developer who has learned though apprenticeship is a valuable commodity.
Some dude with zero experience and a piece of paper is a liability.
Big business knows this all too well.

 

[FarligOpptreden]

AFAIK no University other than UNISA will allow Undergrad study part time, anyone know any different?

BTech -> Diploma
BCom/BSc -> Degree

With BCom(IT) I would say is for guys going into more of a Business Analyst role.
Where as BSc(IT)/BSC(ComSci) more of a developer role.

Tuks offers a degree called B.IT which is a bit of a hybrid between BSc and BCom. It's a 4 years degree, much like Engineering, after which you can do Masters. So it includes a quasi-honours. I found it very insightful that you have the business and systems analysis knowledge from the BCom side and the technical and development knowledge from the BSc side. I also had to complete a 6 month industry-based learning, in which you have to get a job and work off the required amount of hours in order to complete the "module".

I actually think other universities have similar degrees by now, but I'm quite sure Tuks pioneered the idea a few years back...

 

[greggpb]

Btech is a degree.

I worked in the Financial It industry for 10 years, 5 of those running a software development firm that did financial mathematical modeling.

Btech and Bcom It are general degrees

Programming is easy you need to focus on mathematics and patterns if you want to attack this field.. Bsc all they way..

PS I don't have a Bsc.. I am a BTech boy but the BSC is better for the field you want to go into, you are also gonna have to look at a finance degree like I did.. I recommend a CFA .

 

[James]

Btech is a degree.

The B tells you it is a degree

 

[FarligOpptreden]

That sounds really usefull, did you do one? After I_am_penguin's thread I checked out the TUKS course work and I was really impressed. I would even go as far as to suggest they are the best place to study in Gauteng?

I did my B.IT, yes. The problem is that they don't necessarily form part of the Computer Science department, Informatics Department OR the Information Science department. They fall under the "School of IT", which was somewhere in the Engineering faculty. I dunno if it has changed since I was there though (2002 - 2005). But yes, the course was very comprehensive and gave you a good bridging view of Informatics, Information Science, Multimedia and Computer Science. You could even select subjects out of each of those disciplines to do you "honours" in. The work load was pretty heavy though, seeing that you had to do the core modules of each discipline, and then some. It was all worth it in the end though...

TUKS claims to be the best in Gauteng and I'm willing to agree to that. The quality of graduates they produce these days seems to outshine UJ, Wits and the rest of the tertiary institutes...

 

[Gnome]

I'll just reiterate what the others said, BCom is pointless if you like technical things, my general impression of the guys who study BCom so far is some dudes sitting in the lab listening to rave music, raving/jumping in their seats and writing VB.NET applications using whatever means necessary.

BSc(IT/CS)/B.IT there's a huge focus on the technical side, meaning writing quality software. Either way nothing stops you from doing any of those BCom modules (I did business management and financial accounting in first year), but personally I found it incredibly boring/dull and zero challenge, rather wish I had chosen to do more mathematics (yeah, that is how boring those modules were, that I think mathematics would be better!)

Unfortunately getting into a quality institution without Matric exemption is going to be a bit tough, can't you redo some of your subjects?

 

[joshjsawyer]

Sackboy, go play...

Weasley, math's is not a problem for me. I like maths and maths likes me and so does Sackboy's mommy...

dequadin, stop copying Weasley but thanks...

fat.baztard, thanks man encouraging stuff. i will do that...

perelson, idk bru maybe tomorrow...

SlinkyMike, don't u think tho experience and paper go hand in hand? cus i hear u but i also want to be qualified...

FarligOpptreden, thanks man worth looking into...

greggpb, wow ja everyone that seams to know whta they talking about says i must do Bsc. Thinking of doing BSC Programming Stream ICP at UNISA... finance not so keen on but woth looking into...

Gnome, yes UNISA offers an "Access Program" course 6 months where I study 2 of my Degree's subjects coupled with a language from School... then I can apply for Exemption... ja but as you say i want more mathematics too...

 

[CorneN]

@josh - If you are looking for pure development, why not do the ISE stream instead? ICP is a statistics stream.

I've been looking into getting into development studies next year as well. Although, I am more inclined to do a national diploma like UNISA's NDINL and a MS certification or two after that. Do you guys think that will be worth the time?

 

[hyperian]

Hey,

Just caught the tail end of this thread. Search this subforum for software development education and studies - much advise has been given out in the not too distant past, so it might help

 

[Gekco]

What you may want to consider as well is a non-university pure Microsoft course at a training institution for something like "MCPD on Microsoft Visual Studio 2008".

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcpd.aspx#tab2

These usually focus entirely on practical programming aspects.

 

[mic_y]

I'll just reiterate what the others said, BCom is pointless if you like technical things, my general impression of the guys who study BCom so far is some dudes sitting in the lab listening to rave music, raving/jumping in their seats and writing VB.NET applications using whatever means necessary.

Haha, i gotta agree, and I am the one doing it... thing is, we are taught in a very half-hearted way. Kinda bits and pieces, here and there, but when it comes to actual work, we are expected to just do stuff, so code quality goes out the window, and we use whatever means are avaliable (chainsaws, jackhammers, etc) as long as the project kinda works...

This only applies to Wits btw (dont know what the other BComm IS/IT courses are like).

 

[CrazYmonkeY159]

Sorry for hijacking this thread a little bit in advance but i got a question too.

I am currently a 1st year student doing BSc in IT (Comp Sci and Electrical Engineering)

The reason why i chose my 2 specializations is because a) I enjoy computer science and b) engineering is quite practical and i thought that i could apply the practical lessons taught on engineering side to my computer science side (whatever that may be)

my question now is, is Inf Systems a better 2nd specialization than Electrical Engineeiring? is Computer Science and Inf Systems just different sides of the same coin?

so my basic question is, should i rather take up Inf Systems?

would my "employability" (lol) be more if i took up IS instead of EE?
salarywise which is better?
which is more more fun? challenging?

 

[Urganny]

What you may want to consider as well is a non-university pure Microsoft course at a training institution for something like "MCPD on Microsoft Visual Studio 2008".

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcpd.aspx#tab2

These usually focus entirely on practical programming aspects.

These certifications require industry experience right?
Are there any good certifications that do not require experience in the industry?

 

[Gekco]

These certifications require industry experience right?
Are there any good certifications that do not require experience in the industry?

They require industry experience in the sense that with a lot of them it is recommended that you have +- 2 years industry experience before you take the certification exam. (There is nothing preventing you from taking them earlier though)
Part of the reason for this is that areas of the exam consist of items not in the MOC (Microsoft Official Curriculum). These are areas which they expect 'industry experience' will teach one.
However I do know quite a couple of people that have managed to pass certification exams after training without Industry experience.

That said - Finding work is another issue. (It's the age old story of qualifications and experience... How to get experience if all the employers expect you to have experience when you apply for work.)
But people overcome that in general and that would apply to any form of training really.

As for good certifications that do not require industry experience. I can't think of any right now.

 

[Urganny]

They require industry experience in the sense that with a lot of them it is recommended that you have +- 2 years industry experience before you take the certification exam. (There is nothing preventing you from taking them earlier though)
Part of the reason for this is that areas of the exam consist of items not in the MOC (Microsoft Official Curriculum). These are areas which they expect 'industry experience' will teach one.
However I do know quite a couple of people that have managed to pass certification exams after training without Industry experience.

That said - Finding work is another issue. (It's the age old story of qualifications and experience... How to get experience if all the employers expect you to have experience when you apply for work.)
But people overcome that in general and that would apply to any form of training really.

As for good certifications that do not require industry experience. I can't think of any right now.

@ Gecko: Thanks for the response

Would anyone recommend to do the courses without the experience? Keeping in mind the current TIGHT job market.