Where to take/sell an idea for an app

[biometrics]

I might be interested but I want to know how you're going to make money from it?

 

[JStrike]

I also come from the standpoint that ideas are worth nothing. It;s the execution that counts.

But here is the problem. Loads of patents in the US are just that. Ideas that will never come to fruition because the 'idea' or concept is patented. I find that ridiculous because that stifles innovation. Innovation rarely happens at the idea level. It happens at implementation level. The US patent office / patent system is broken because of this and gets a lot of flak as a result.

I have been working on a couple of concepts. Hell, even implemented them. Only to find that the 'idea' is patented. So what to do? Do I try to licence the 'idea' with the hope of making money.

So by virtue of the fact that an idea is to some extent patentable, it has to have some value?

The US patent system is a broken mess

 

[JStrike]

Reminds me of this thread

https://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/836583-I-have-a-multi-million-dollar-idea

Wonder if ^^ is a millionaire yet.

Nope. Because as it turns out, ideas are not worth millions of dollars

 

[saor]

I would like to either go in partnership with a company/developer where we work on percentages in the ownership on the app (in this case , how do i prevent the other person/company just walking off with my idea ) or just plain straight sell the idea for a lump-sum.

Imagine you've got an idea for a physical product:

1.) It's very difficult / nearly impossible to sell just the idea of the product to a product design company.
2.) It's rare that a product design company will sink free time into something just because you're going to share the sales profits with them.

The only way to get work done is money upfront to pay them for their time & you can then sign an NDA. Why do you think app dev is any different?

 

[JStrike]

Just some more information as to why ideas are worthless and NDA's will get you nowhere.

You create your app. Lets call it AppX. Everything goes swimmingly.

An entrepreneur comes to me, and says : 'I'm going to copy AppX which is a nice idea, with A and B improvements/integrations. I've hired these well known devs and put in C amount of money. I believe we can scale fast and need money to dominate market share and prevent new entrants from gaining share'. Lets call this AppY


I invest R2m in his company.

AppY takes off, gains almost total market share due to the money being thrown at it.

Your AppX now joins the millions of apps that people have forgotten about. And thus ends the story of the plucky app that thought an NDA would protect it

 

[The_MAC]

Just some more information as to why ideas are worthless and NDA's will get you nowhere.

You create your app. Lets call it AppX. Everything goes swimmingly.

An entrepreneur comes to me, and says : 'I'm going to copy AppX which is a nice idea, with A and B improvements/integrations. I've hired these well known devs and put in C amount of money. I believe we can scale fast and need money to dominate market share and prevent new entrants from gaining share'. Lets call this AppY


I invest R2m in his company.

AppY takes off, gains almost total market share due to the money being thrown at it.

Your AppX now joins the millions of apps that people have forgotten about. And thus ends the story of the plucky app that thought an NDA would protect it

Facebook was one such example.

Many social platforms existed before it, but they made it "better" and more relevant..

 

[Zyraz]

Just some more information as to why ideas are worthless and NDA's will get you nowhere.

You create your app. Lets call it AppX. Everything goes swimmingly.

An entrepreneur comes to me, and says : 'I'm going to copy AppX which is a nice idea, with A and B improvements/integrations. I've hired these well known devs and put in C amount of money. I believe we can scale fast and need money to dominate market share and prevent new entrants from gaining share'. Lets call this AppY


I invest R2m in his company.

AppY takes off, gains almost total market share due to the money being thrown at it.

Your AppX now joins the millions of apps that people have forgotten about. And thus ends the story of the plucky app that thought an NDA would protect it

So your advice is basically write off any idea if you can't outspend any possible competition?

By the way you put it, the average Joe won't be successful no matter how brilliant the idea?

 

[JStrike]

Facebook was one such example.

Many social platforms existed before it, but they made it "better" and more relevant..

Yep.

It's one of the most fundamental questions in the startup/VC world. If the concept is successful, how do you prevent others from copying it and taking your market share?
The answer is one of :
It is insanely complex engineering (Think Google's Search algorithm)
Spend vast amounts of money doing a land grab (Think Amazon's store)
If the app's fundamental concept is a network, grow the network so fast that nobody would use a competitor even if it is better (Think Facebook's social network)

 

[JStrike]

So your advice is basically write off any idea if you can't outspend any possible competition?

By the way you put it, the average Joe won't be successful no matter how brilliant the idea?

Average Joe almost never succeeds. It is a myth that Average Joe can make millions off of an app. While there might be one or two exceptions, they are the very rare exception.

Sadly enough, those that succeed generally share the following traits :
They tend to come from fairly wealthy families (They tend to be the people that can afford to give up their day jobs and put their time and money into their new idea)
They have a track record of executing on an idea.
They have the connections to go after the correct VC's (Not all VC's are created equal) or investors

 

[Spacerat]

Average Joe almost never succeeds. It is a myth that Average Joe can make millions off of an app. While there might be one or two exceptions, they are the very rare exception.

Sadly enough, those that succeed generally share the following traits :
They tend to come from fairly wealthy families (They tend to be the people that can afford to give up their day jobs and put their time and money into their new idea)
They have a track record of executing on an idea.
They have the connections to go after the correct VC's (Not all VC's are created equal) or investors

Sad for all of us devs, but true. Time to market and relevance at that point in time is everything. Oh yes, and load of luck too.

 

[rward]

Constructive advice:
-----------------------

It's great that you have an idea. As you may have noticed from the previous posts, many people have had ideas before too.
This guy had an idea too, and he got his off the ground and launched: https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/...-from-scratch-by-yourself-part-1-4d834e1df8c1

Read that, read part 2 and part 3 and part 4 too. Learn from people that have been there before.

BECAUSE YOU BUILD IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL COME! You are not Kevin Costner

Seriously, if you don't bother reading that link then put your idea on the shelf and forget it.

Next; You're so sure of your idea that you're willing to put money into it, probably morgage your house and downgrade your car because, "This is an idea that is going to make MILLIONS". Well, if it is going to make millions then INVEST IN IT, put your money where your mouth is. If YOU are not willing to do that then exactly how good is your idea again?

These are hard questions but be honest with yourself. If you'er willing to put your money down then it shows those that you also want to involve that you're not another "I have an idea and want you to build it for a share but I forgot to market it so it's going to tank anyway" people.

Without budget you have no marketing. Without marketing you have no presence and customers. Without customers you have nothing.


I'm still believing that you have a great idea, so stay with this.

If you're getting upset with what you're reading and think you can skip some of these points then that's your consciousness telling you that maybe your idea isn't too good.

Go re-read https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/...-from-scratch-by-yourself-part-1-4d834e1df8c1

Read part 2, 3 and 4 too (links at the bottom of each part).


Know your market.
Know your competition.
Know who you're going to market it to.
Know how you're going to market it.
Know how you're going to make money off it. (more below)
Have your business plan done.
Start marketing.
Get Users.
Now, think of development.
Find developers, call up their references
Contact agencies (you said it will be a money printing machine, right? sell your car, morgage the house, etc).
Share the idea with developers (plural) and PAY THEM FOR FEEDBACK! (You get paid to do your job so pay them to do theirs.)
Consolidate the feedback and get a development plan.
Approach developers (plural) again and get quotes and timelines.
Think MVP - read https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/...-from-scratch-by-yourself-part-1-4d834e1df8c1
Get them to do the least amout of work that you need right now.
Keep marketing.


Know how you're going to make money off it:

Specific to "I'm going to get 20Million users and someone will buy it from me":
This is not a plan
Know how you're going to get the users. Know how to put a value on eacch user/business.
Set out a detailed description of why someone would pay for the users.
Know who you would sell it to.
Possibly approach them and ask if they would be interested in what you would like to sell them.


Know exactly how you are going to make money, monthly charge (what rate do you charge?), in 'app' purchases, yearly, per transaction, etc..
Know WHY people will want to pay for it. Again "I think they will" is not an answer, go out and ask people, get those 20 "Heck YES!"



It's a long road ahead but remeber, your idea is a money printer so it will be worth it.
Get the marketing started before thinking fo the development.

 

[Thor]

PS
I'll sign an NDA just to hear what it is

Ditto

 

[Thor]

Well the idea is very simple yet very useful for anyone .
Shouldn't be too hard to develop for most developers .

We talking a couple of days at most if not just a couple of hours .

One of those " I wish I thought of that " things.

Due to the simplicity I will not discuss even small details other than the above .

Now I'm interested.

 

[rward]

I would like to either go in partnership with a company/developer where we work on percentages in the ownership on the app (in this case , how do i prevent the other person/company just walking off with my idea ) or just plain straight sell the idea for a lump-sum.

Pointers or directions would be appreciated ?

In case you skipped the wall of text I put down earlier:

Before you speak to someone, have respect for them and get the following in order:

Know your market.
Know your competition.
Know who you're going to market it to.
Know how you're going to market it.
Know how you're going to make money off it.
Have your business plan done.
*Start marketing.
*Get Users.



Also, be willing to pay for the initial conversation - you want the information that the developer has spent a lifetime collecting. Don't insult her/him buy not offering to pay for it and don't be offended if they tell you that the meeting will cost money.

How to stop them walking off:
They won't.

If you're really worried then get them to send you some references first. Make an effort and call the references to find out about the person.

If you're still not willing then learn to code and do it yourself.

 

[Kerrits]

rward has the gist of it.

There were smartphones before the iphone, tablets before the ipad. The idea existed long before Apple released its products, yet the execution was lacking, and they failed to various degrees.

If a developer works for "shares" for a month, full time, he is effectively betting R40k-ish on your idea. Not only your idea, but also that you will hold up your end of the bargain. The dev can develop, but you should do the marketing, you should have the plan to generate revenue etc. You should provide the design for the app, or employ a designer, or hire a dev with design skills. Proper UI/UX design skills, which most don't have.
The couple of weeks is probably also an oversimplification. It will take months.

So, you say that you will give a dev shares in the company... If I hypothetically think you have the next snapchat or twitter, and have a way to make money off that, I want at least a 50% stake. Especially since I will be the one working on that for a month, and living on my savings for a month. Many months, since profit will only come much later. While you probably still work your day job and risk nothing?

HA! Thinking about it now, If you're not willing to either pay me a salary, or quit your day job, there's is no way I would do work for 99.9% of brilliant ideas out there. Reduced salary + shares, sure, but only a fool would work for a promise of riches if the other party is not taking a serious risk as well.

The people I know who were serious about their ideas, quit their job, took their life savings and hired devs.

 

[DanH]

Building an app properly is an expensive exercise. Let me give you an idea of what's involved on the dev side.

It needs a dev team, not a single dev.

Ideas need to be translated into specs, wire frames, designs, etc, by you, a ux/ui designer, someone with BA skills and consultation with devs.

The system needs to be architected by an experienced senior dev so that you can produce an mvp with minimal cost and time, but still be able to scale in later releases.

A ux/ui designer needs to produce designs for android, ios and cater for all the various resolutions and design the backend server side portal website.

The backend database needs to be created.

The backend system needs to be built to interact with the database. It also needs provide an endpoint for the mobile app via API, push notifications to android, push notifications to ios, in app notifications via something like signalR. Then it needs a web portal for you to interact with the backend. It might need to be able to run and schedule tasks. This system needs to be fast and scalable.

Then the actual app needs to be built for ios and then built from scratch again for android. Mobile app building is a finicky process.

Anylitics needs to be captured on either the backend or app side or both, this needs to be done by someone that knows what they are doing as it needs to be setup properly from day one. This is what you will use to determine usage on each individual item on your app. These are the stats that you will base your future decision making on.

The app dev and the back end dev are usually seperate devs as they are different specialities.

Then the backend needs to be hosted somewhere. This needs to be setup and can take time depending on complexity and where and how you choose to host it.

It could cost anywhere from R300pm to R10000+pm and range from no setup costs to buying hardware depending on the choices made.

Once you get your first working app built it will need to be tested on various devices, different versions of ios and android and different screen sizes and manufactures by a tester and by you. There will be a long list of fixes and changes. Multiple builds and retesting will have done of both the app and backend system before a public release is possible.

After public release there will be necessary feature adds and bug fixes.

There will be ongoing dev after the first public release to push the next release and the next and the next.

 

[Spacerat]

Zyraz, listen to this above. I had many 'customers' wanting me to develop their idea. As soon as I ask them how they will make money, get users etc, they fall flat. It means that they have not done their homework, nor went through the thought processes to even start a business plan. This is a clear signal that they don't know their market and will not be able to uphold their end of the partnership. As soon as the topic of cost comes up, they lose interest vary quickly.

Out of all these potential customers, only one pushed through. He mortgaged his house, drove a ****ty car in order to put loads of money on the table. He believed in his idea, knew his customers and knew what the market wanted. And how to make money off it. He is now quite successful with his product and and 10% global market share. Not bad for a small CPT based company.

 

[Thor]

I haven't received a PM yet OP.

 

[Zyraz]

I haven't received a PM yet OP.

I have had someone that put me in touch with someone that might assist me .

Thanks for all the advice all , constructive and some not so constructive .
Without giving it away , some info has been relevant and useful .
Some advice or opinions are completely irrelevant . (Not the poster`s fault , as I have divulged enough information about the app).

As things stand I cant really add more info as it might just spur someone to actually accidentally stumble on the same idea.
Once again , this will not be a very complex undertaking on the development side .
Simplicity is key .

 

[Thor]

I have had someone that put me in touch with someone that might assist me .

Thanks for all the advice all , constructive and some not so constructive .
Without giving it away , some info has been relevant and useful .
Some advice or opinions are completely irrelevant . (Not the poster`s fault , as I have divulged enough information about the app).

As things stand I cant really add more info as it might just spur someone to actually accidentally stumble on the same idea.
Once again , this will not be a very complex undertaking on the development side .
Simplicity is key .

Just putting it out there I have no issue with an NDA I will even put my lawyer on it for you. So keep it in mind when the "someone" cannot help you.