Which programming language should be taught in South African high schools?

[MartinMorrison]

the argument is simple

Delphi = money to officials and supporting a cottage industry
Other ecosystem = each has merits and arguments to be had ...

It's not that simple. There are IT Teachers that truly support Delphi over other languages, over fear of poor training, not knowing how to work mark etc. There are people in this thread that really do support Delphi. The entire DoE isn't being paid off by the Delphi guys - maybe some - but there are bigger partners out there willing to throw around substantial money and resources eg Oracle.

 

[Paul Hjul]

It's not that simple. There are IT Teachers that truly support Delphi over other languages, over fear of poor training, not knowing how to work mark etc. There are people in this thread that really do support Delphi. The entire DoE isn't being paid off by the Delphi guys - maybe some - but there are bigger partners out there willing to throw around substantial money and resources eg Oracle.

It isn't a problem of individual teachers in support of Delphi on the basis of their being in a better position to teach with it. I've put a defense (after a rant ) here:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...-Informatics?p=9876662&viewfull=1#post9876662

It isn't exclusively about pay offs but rather about the fact that Borland learnt how to FUD like the rest of them.
However I am damn sure that if somebody did go out and actively bribe officials to move away from Delphi it would happen - and that in itself is a problem

 

[jobuskotze]

Python.

 

[Thor]

Im sorry, i was wrong. Visited the family over the weekend had a look at little bro's IT books.

They teach Delphi .


Fck knows where he will use that or why its preferred over something like java where you can land a job straight out of school compared to delphi which ive never heard of and a quick job search showed its not needed except if you program in c or jave or some other modern langauge but still need to maintain a 20 year old legacy system in delphi.

So fck me no faith in this country.

 

[Cactus]

Im sorry, i was wrong. Visited the family over the weekend had a look at little bro's IT books.

They teach Delphi .


Fck knows where he will use that or why its preferred over something like java where you can land a job straight out of school compared to delphi which ive never heard of and a quick job search showed its not needed except if you program in c or jave or some other modern langauge but still need to maintain a 20 year old legacy system in delphi.

So fck me no faith in this country.

You seem very narrow minded towards proper software development. Being a software developer is not so much about the language you learn, but rather applying any language properly and learning how to solve problems.

Delphi is easier to learn than Java for someone with no development skills, but the concept stays the same. All programming languages have a place and once you understand the underlying concept and how to solve problems then it's very easy to learn a new language.

If you have a mindset that you need to learn Java to land a job, then you're doing it wrong and sadly have the same mindset as most recruiters.

 

[biometrics]

You seem very narrow minded towards proper software development. Being a software developer is not so much about the language you learn, but rather applying any language properly and learning how to solve problems.

Delphi is easier to learn than Java for someone with no development skills, but the concept stays the same. All programming languages have a place and once you understand the underlying concept and how to solve problems then it's very easy to learn a new language.

If you have a mindset that you need to learn Java to land a job, then you're doing it wrong and sadly have the same mindset as most recruiters.

Agreed.

 

[Thor]

You seem very narrow minded towards proper software development. Being a software developer is not so much about the language you learn, but rather applying any language properly and learning how to solve problems.

Delphi is easier to learn than Java for someone with no development skills, but the concept stays the same. All programming languages have a place and once you understand the underlying concept and how to solve problems then it's very easy to learn a new language.

If you have a mindset that you need to learn Java to land a job, then you're doing it wrong and sadly have the same mindset as most recruiters.

Give me one reason why you endorse Delphi a language you'll never use in your life over java to be teached in school.

(I did java when I was still at school. It wasn't that hard, I still do java to this day. Albeit not as a career merely in my personal capacity)

 

[Cactus]

Give me one reason why you endorse Delphi a language you'll never use in your life over java to be teached in school.

(I did java when I was still at school. It wasn't that hard, I still do java to this day. Albeit not as a career merely in my personal capacity)

I'm not endorsing Delphi anywhere. Please re-read my statement:

All programming languages have a place and once you understand the underlying concept and how to solve problems then it's very easy to learn a new language.

When I was studying, we were taught VB.net in first year. Have I ever used VB.net again? No. Did I waste my time learning it? Absolute not! VB.net taught me the concept of OOP, patterns and architectural designs. That knowledge is completely valid and very useful in my professional environment where I use C#.

You think of languages in terms of skills. Rather you should think of languages as tools. If you're required to create a few CRUD screens for a client with basic DB interactions, why would you not use Delphi over Java?

Delphi would yield results much faster in this scenario because it's so simple to create CRUD screens. That's what business is. Create the best possible solution in the shortest amount of time using the BEST tool for the job.

 

[Swa]

You seem very narrow minded towards proper software development. Being a software developer is not so much about the language you learn, but rather applying any language properly and learning how to solve problems.

Delphi is easier to learn than Java for someone with no development skills, but the concept stays the same. All programming languages have a place and once you understand the underlying concept and how to solve problems then it's very easy to learn a new language.

If you have a mindset that you need to learn Java to land a job, then you're doing it wrong and sadly have the same mindset as most recruiters.

+10. Delphi was developed as a learning tool. As already explained in other threads the code base is huge so it's easy to get support. Once someone has the basic concepts under their belt they can learn any language.

 

[Thor]

Good read, but unfortunately. We live in Afrika.

http://cstaab.com/best-hs-prg-lang/

 

[Sinbad]

X86 assembler.

 

[Genisys]

Im sorry, i was wrong. Visited the family over the weekend had a look at little bro's IT books.

They teach Delphi .


Fck knows where he will use that or why its preferred over something like java where you can land a job straight out of school compared to delphi which ive never heard of and a quick job search showed its not needed except if you program in c or jave or some other modern langauge but still need to maintain a 20 year old legacy system in delphi.

So fck me no faith in this country.

Odds of someone fresh out of high school landing a programming job is really really low.

 

[konfab]

X86 assembler.

http://www.visualmasm.com/why-assembler.html

Imagine a generation of school leavers competent in assembly programming.

 

[FoXtroT]

I matriculated in 2010 and we were taught Java and a bit of SQL.

It's my understanding that the education department lets schools choose between Delphi and Java.

 

[Thor]

I matriculated in 2010 and we were taught Java and a bit of SQL.

It's my understanding that the education department lets schools choose between Delphi and Java.

Also did java


Entry level programing should be mandatory in high school. It really helps.

 

[kaufen]

You guys forget that these are children. They want to see the button they "coded" on the screen that turns the text to a different colour, and type something into a textbox that appears on another machine when you hit enter. Fun stuff.

Screw the theory and all the "fundamentals" of programming. That is for university. In school it should be fun. It's not like you need this the same way as you need math, science, English etc.

 

[cguy]

You guys forget that these are children. They want to see the button they "coded" on the screen that turns the text to a different colour, and type something into a textbox that appears on another machine when you hit enter. Fun stuff.

Screw the theory and all the "fundamentals" of programming. That is for university. In school it should be fun. It's not like you need this the same way as you need math, science, English etc.

I don't think you're giving the kids enough credit. For me it was an eye opener to see how the fundamentals and theory complemented my goal of achieving what I considered a fun project at the time (writing a real-time 3D renderer). It was amazing seeing how rasterization could be sped up by rewriting some key loops in assembler, and how a hybrid insertion+quick sort algorithm would allow me to sort the polygons by depth efficiently.

I definitely do agree that visual stimulus is important though - being able to "see" the effect of what you've done. Obviously, my project was more ambitious than most, but I really like the idea of building something interactive like games (which can be done with a wide spectrum of skill levels), and can incorporate fundamentals like boolean logic, algorithms, data-structures, computer architecture (machine level optimizations), etc.

 

[kooldude]

You guys forget that these are children. They want to see the button they "coded" on the screen that turns the text to a different colour, and type something into a textbox that appears on another machine when you hit enter. Fun stuff.

Screw the theory and all the "fundamentals" of programming. That is for university. In school it should be fun. It's not like you need this the same way as you need math, science, English etc.

Then they must look at Scratch

 

[zippy]

I don't think you're giving the kids enough credit. For me it was an eye opener to see how the fundamentals and theory complemented my goal of achieving what I considered a fun project at the time (writing a real-time 3D renderer). It was amazing seeing how rasterization could be sped up by rewriting some key loops in assembler, and how a hybrid insertion+quick sort algorithm would allow me to sort the polygons by depth efficiently.

I definitely do agree that visual stimulus is important though - being able to "see" the effect of what you've done. Obviously, my project was more ambitious than most, but I really like the idea of building something interactive like games (which can be done with a wide spectrum of skill levels), and can incorporate fundamentals like boolean logic, algorithms, data-structures, computer architecture (machine level optimizations), etc.

I agree with you. but kaufen does have a point. At the early stages you want to create interest more than anything. Courses should ramp up. They may start with "fun stuff", but for say year 1 or even 2. Even during year 1 etc, you can offer incentives for extra credit for those picking up concepts faster than others. People develop at different rates. You cant start off assuming everyone is going to be taken with hybrid insertion+quick sort algorithm at the same time, or writing a real-time 3D renderer.

Its a general problem with teaching I think that there is this one-size fits all teaching

 

[ponder]

X86 assembler.

+1 for assembler

x86 sucks compared to other architectures though. I have fond memories of 680x0 assembly and although I've never touched MIPS it looked good from what I recall.

Then again I'm not a programmer but basically taught myself 6502, 8051, 8086, 68000 & PIC assembly, some while in school & others while studying engineering. It was fun.