Whites leaving SA in droves

MacNabs

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I've read so much claptrap from you on this thread, so I feel it's my civic duty to warn all your neighbours to watch their sheep:D

Cool, actually had nice lamb chops tonight, so best everybody get their sheep out of here.

Guys if you want to down NZ, rather hit us where it hurts the most. Rip off our sheep.
 

samuelp

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Yes NZ has a problem with some people leaving for AUS/UK etc.. but guess what, most of these people come back!!! This should be seen as an opportunity for South African's, if it was not for this, many of us would not be here. As for the amount of people here from the UK and europe, I am meeting them all the time. many people are moving from the UK to AUS/NZ for the better lifestyle.

What are you on about with Maori's and other Pacific Islanders revendications? Maori's have always been here (10% of the population), as for the Pacific Islanders I have seen a few around. Think I saw one the week before last. Not sure though. :p

Hum :
http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyr...1/0/Chapter1_populationchangeandstructure.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland

In Auckland, Pacific Islanders are 15% of the population, more than Maoris
 

MacNabs

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New Zealand is just a little bit bigger than Auckland. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_zealand

The population is mostly of European descent, with the indigenous Māori being the largest minority. Asians and non-Maori Polynesians are also significant minorities, especially in the cities. Elizabeth II, as the Queen of New Zealand, is the Head of State and, in her absence, is represented by a non-partisan Governor-General.

Why do South Africans think that the Maoris are so bad? Almost all of them have at least had a high school education, they are a minority anyway. They are a mostly peacefull bunch. Until you have experienced living here you will never understand it, so debating it with you is useless.

And from the very article you quoted:

The estimated resident population of the Mäori ethnic group at 30 June 2007 was
632,900. The Mäori population is much younger than the total population. Half of
New Zealand’s Mäori ethnic group population was under 23.0 years of age at
30 June 2007, 13.1 years younger than the median age of the total population.
 

TooFastTim

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In Auckland, Pacific Islanders are 15% of the population, more than Maoris

Yeah you do see more PI's in Auckland in spite of the fact that Moaris are 10% of the population, they are surprising thin on the ground.

Interestingly anybody in NZ who can claim ANY Maori ancestry may claim to be Maori. This carries with it social rewards (e.g. tax rebates). The definition of Maori has become so hazy that I read of a under-grad doctor a while ago who was doing some thesis or other. Her surname was as anglo as they come (Smith? I can't remember the exact surname), but she had straight blonde hair and blue eyes!
 

Turtle

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Yeah you do see more PI's in Auckland in spite of the fact that Moaris are 10% of the population, they are surprising thin on the ground.

Interestingly anybody in NZ who can claim ANY Maori ancestry may claim to be Maori. This carries with it social rewards (e.g. tax rebates). The definition of Maori has become so hazy that I read of a under-grad doctor a while ago who was doing some thesis or other. Her surname was as anglo as they come (Smith? I can't remember the exact surname), but she had straight blonde hair and blue eyes!

Yup, I can believe that, and it's probably not even unusual, there's been a lot of interbreeding over the years so a significant percentage of New Zealanders, even if they might look and effectively "be" white, claim some Maori heritage. And I don't know if it's because of the benefits, but seemingly it is popular to claim to be Maori instead of white when you have any Maori blood in you. The stats may be skewed even. Many of the more obviously Maori people also tend to concentrate into certain areas.

The question of what race you are seems to lose meaning much more quickly there than here because it just doesn't mean that much, the Maori are comparatively more culturally integrated, and even amongst the mixed people there is this huge 'gradient' or spread of different mixtures, plus you can't always tell PI from Maori etc. Amongst the whites are also many Australians, UKers, SAns, Irish, Americans. Then there is a sizable Asian population. People are just not hung up on race though. Most people behave more or less decently and civilized. Nobody cares much "what" you are.

Auckland has roughly a quarter of NZ's population (around 1 of 4 million or so, IIRC). It's a nice city. You see lots of Asians, plus all the other locals and their mixtures, but you do still feel you're in a mostly white place.
 

TooFastTim

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It has an unusual beauty to it. The best I've come with is moving Cape Town to Knysna. Auckland is situated around a host of lagoons and, when the weather is right, it can be breathtaking.

There's no doubt in my mind, and I've seen a fair slice of the globe, that Cape Town is arguably the most beautiful place on the planet. I haven't seen Rio yet so it remains my jaundiced opinion. Sydney's pretty good though.
 

Skinner

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OK, so lets compare living in JHB Inner city and Auckland inner city, Obviously Auckland is going to be more expensive. JHB is rated as one of the cheapest cities in the world to live in. I wonder why :p
Yes but JHB is not the only city in SA. And from my experience, a reasonable house in CPT surrounding suburbs will cost between R1m and R2m. So if a house in NZ 50km outside of the city costs R1.8m (converted equivalent), I can just guess that it will be much more expensive than inner city in SA.

Have a look at:
http://www.emigratenz.org/house-prices-auckland.html
Look at the average house prices for in a city like Auckland :eek:
Makes SA look not that bad, does it?

Look again.
Erm... the 8-9% rates you are quoting are fixed rates for 1/2/3/4 years. You conveniently neglected to mention that. After that time, the rate goes up to 10.75%. So either you are not mentioning vital information in this argument, or you don't know yourself what your own rate will be hiked to after 2 years :D

Have a look at:
http://www.emigratenz.org/new-zealand-mortgage-rates.html
Oh wow, it seems my research about the mortgage rate is correct: nearly 11% :eek: Makes SA 15% MAX look not so bad, does it?
Another quote from that page:
New Zealand currently has close to the highest interest rates in the developed world.
Wow, this is a stunner. I quote it again:
New Zealand currently has close to the highest interest rates in the developed world.
So, you were saying....?? :D

Some more links as proof:
http://www.westpac.co.nz/olcontent/olcontent.nsf/Content/Choices+home+loan+rates
The 8-9% you were referring to are fixed interest rates.
Fixed interest rates
With a fixed interest rate your payments and the interest rate stay the same for a set time. Extra costs may be incurred if you pay back all or part of your fixed interest rate mortgage early.

With a fixed interest rate you

* know what your mortgage payments will be
* can fix your interest rate for terms between six months and five years
* can increase regular payments by up to 20% of your minimum repayment


At the end of your fixed interest rate loan term

* your mortgage will convert to the floating interest rate
... which is nearly 11% :D

Some more links:
http://www.emigratenz.org/getting-a-mortgage-in-new-zealand.html
http://www.interest.co.nz/mortgages.asp

:D

15% is bl00dy madness, and I feel for all of those that are battling to survive in SA just to keep up with the payments.
If you have a good credit record, you can negotiate a mortage rate of prime+0 (which is what, 15.5%?) with your SA bank. Unfortunately with no credit record in NZ, that will not be possible. Shame :(

Dude, catch a wake up.
I think you are the one that needs to catch a wake up. Look at the above!

We often park in the street because just sometimes its easier. Our garage is full of crap in boxes that we have not unpacked since moving here. There is no need to rush and get the garage sorted just to get the car inside.
You are lucky to have a garage. Most people who emmigrate will NOT get a garage (assuming they can get a car!) in their first few years.

Like I said I was lucky, however this is the done thing for a lot of companies here in NZ when recruiting, Many of the South Africans I works with have been just as lucky. Obviously if you come over as a plumber or something its not going to happen. I don't see any SA companies doing the same, trying to lure the expats back?
Not relevant. If you don't emmigrate out of SA, you won't even have the problem of getting your move paid for by an employer, because there won't even be a move in the first place. Logical, isn't it?

You really are onebrickshort! Read the topic of the thread. Whites leaving SA in droves. Maybe read the article before posting.
Yes. Whites leaving SA in droves. That does not mean that lots of people from overseas are not also coming in to SA to settle. 2 unrelated actions.
 
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Skinner

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You really are a wuckfit. You have no idea.
Try maximising the constructive discussion and minimising the destructive insults, please.
Thanks.

Fact: Residency visa holders get the vote in NZ. (two years for citizenship and the vote in Aus)
Cool, but we are not only talking about NZ here, are we?
The rest of the world does not only consist of NZ, does it?

Fact: Half an hour to do a drivers license conversion (from SA).
Again, relevant to only NZ.
In many other countries your SA licence is useless after the initial tourist period, and if you get a residence permit and want to drive a car, you have to do the full driving exams, classes and tests again.
Germany: €2,000 minimum (R24k :eek:), and months of difficult tests and mandatory classes. How do you like that?
Granted, in US it is also quite easy (like NZ).

Fact: Two forms signed on the bonnet of the owners car bonnet secured rental.
I suppose to lure people to NZ, the arse end of the world, they had to make things as easy as possible for people to settle in. Much like Ireland. :D

Fact: Opening a business here is easier than SA (no quotas, no levies etc)
Try that in any European country. You will be (un)pleasantly surprised.

You're clueless. If you had half an idea you'd put up better arguments than you do. And ego? Boy do you have an overinflated opinion of you're own brilliance. Legend in your own lunchbox aren't you? Go-getter? My arse.
Thanks for that.

Like I said earlier, you're free to sprout uniformed rubbish as you please and we must defend our informed opinion? Use your overinflated cranium for something useful and research your facts in future.
Again thanks.
 

Skinner

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It has an unusual beauty to it. The best I've come with is moving Cape Town to Knysna. Auckland is situated around a host of lagoons and, when the weather is right, it can be breathtaking.
It does sound tempting and beautiful.

Unfortunately, I personally find the $800,000 average house price a bit high. It is just slightly out of my budget.
($800,000 = R4.5 million :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:)
 

Skinner

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So, we have 11% floating mortgage rate in NZ, and 15.5% floating in SA.
R1.5m house in CPT. Comparible to R3.5m house in Auckland.

Do the maths. Work out what will be the most expensive. :)
Bet you CPT will come out tops :)
 

TooFastTim

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It does sound tempting and beautiful.

Unfortunately, I personally find the $800,000 average house price a bit high. It is just slightly out of my budget.
($800,000 = R4.5 million :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:)

Average house price in Akl is $450,000.

Now answer some of my previous questions, and don't try to avoid them this time.
 

Arthur

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So, we have 11% floating mortgage rate in NZ, and 15.5% floating in SA.
R1.5m house in CPT. Comparible to R3.5m house in Auckland.

Do the maths. Work out what will be the most expensive. :)
Bet you CPT will come out tops :)
Er, ackshilly it's about a lot more than just money. Small unquantifiable things like QoL, safety, security, cleanliness, working systems, prospects. And lamb chops.
But grant the argument for a mo and you'll have to factor in real income as well as the value of future income. I suspect earning NZ$ rather than R just might make a diffs. Most people in NZ seem to manage, so unless you're sub-par it shouldn't take too long to get up to speed.
BTW, I've never been to NZ. Nor am I considering moving there. Just mentioning that a snapshot financial comparison is pointless.
 
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Frankie

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Er, ackshilly it's about a lot more than just money. Small unquantifiable things like QoL, safety, security, cleanliness, working systems, prospects. And lamb chops.
But grant the argument for a mo and you'll have to factor in real income as well as the value of future income. I suspect earning NZ$ rather than R just might make a diffs. Most people in NZ seem to manage, so unless you're sub-par it shouldn't take too long to get up to speed.
BTW, I've never been to NZ. Nor am I considering moving there. Just mentioning that a snapshot financial comparison is pointless.

Bear in mind that you are presenting reasonable argument in response to foolish troll bait.
 

alloytoo

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Average house price in Akl is $450,000.

Now answer some of my previous questions, and don't try to avoid them this time.

And people actually want to live in Auckland as apposed to JHB :D

Luckily after all that saving on private security, healthcare, and education one has more disposable income to buy property.
 

goFLY

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Bear in mind that you are presenting reasonable argument in response to foolish troll bait.

:D +1

After reading all the trolls replies I have to agree. This is my first post and I have to say the troll is VERY irritating.
 

Skinner

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Average house price in Akl is $450,000.
Which is R2.5 million.

Average house price in SA is R900k (bank-confirmed figure quoted recently).

R2.5m > R0.9m
:)

Now answer some of my previous questions, and don't try to avoid them this time.
Refresh my memory? I did not intentionally try to avoid any of your questions.
 

Skinner

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Er, ackshilly it's about a lot more than just money. Small unquantifiable things like QoL, safety, security, cleanliness, working systems, prospects. And lamb chops.
The particular point in discussion was about house prices and mortgage rates. Do not mix the topics. The factors you refer to are discussed in other points.

But grant the argument for a mo and you'll have to factor in real income as well as the value of future income. I suspect earning NZ$ rather than R just might make a diffs. Most people in NZ seem to manage, so unless you're sub-par it shouldn't take too long to get up to speed.
BTW, I've never been to NZ. Nor am I considering moving there. Just mentioning that a snapshot financial comparison is pointless.
As I said before: NZ is just 1 option where to emmigrate to, and although there seem to be some advantages compared to other destinations, many South Africans might not be able to go there, or like it there. After all, it is on the arse side of the world :D
 
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