Whites leaving SA in droves

[Turtle]

Turtle, you can buy a British forged passport for R30k if you really needed one dude, and from the UK you could dodge it to EU. Back to the motherland so to speak

Always have a backup plan, even if it doesn't include legislation ;D

Thanks, but I have certain principles that I want to never compromise, ever. I suppose if my life depended on it I'd have no choice, but for the moment I'll slog on the honest way.

Also that is risky; if you're ever found out, you may be kicked out (back into what then could be an even worse SA), and that would quite possibly screw with any travelling or any kind of visa you might ever want to do for the rest of your life. I'd prefer not to have spend the rest of my life with a nagging worry in the back of my mind wondering, every single day, is today the day they find out I'm not here legitimately. Maybe you can do it without that worry, I can't.

Think im Russian Jewish descendant, might give that a shot when, like you say, the #(*$ hits the fan...

Interesting, I'm part Russian Jewish and part Lithuanian Jewish. If you can 'prove' your Jewish heritage (at least one grandparent if I understand it correctly (not clear to me if it must be maternal)) you may quality for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return (regardless if you or your parents/grandparents have been there); it's also an option I've been looking at, but what puts me off is compulsory and regular military conscription for all citizens until you're +/- 50 years of age. I doubt I'd have any claim to a Russian or Lithuanian passport at this point but it might be possible ... don't think I can prove that heritage though at this point.

PS: If "Africans" can claim land ownership by birthright, and the EU supports it, cant a African European claim birthright in the EU?

In theory, yes, but the world runs on double standards, there are different rules for partially subjugated races.

 

[Turtle]

Where? What signs?

I walk down the streets of Stellenbosch and see busty student girls around. Everyone seems happy and laughing. The shops, restaurants and coffee shops are full. Many residential suburbs in and around Stellenbosch have houses that look like mansions with little or no walls / fencing around. BMWs and Mercs are parked in the driveways. Children play on the open lawns or parks opposite the houses.

So, please tell me, where are the rocks and bushes the Africans are supposedly hiding behind, waiting to jump out and rip your guts out??

Gauteng is part of SA. A big part of it. Go live in Gauteng for a while.

 

[Turtle]

Try to figure it out.
No not trolling.

I give up, it still looks contradictory to me, help us out.

 

[saffakanera]

Thanks, but I have certain principles that I want to never compromise, ever. I suppose if my life depended on it I'd have no choice, but for the moment I'll slog on the honest way.

Also that is risky; if you're ever found out, you may be kicked out (back into what then could be an even worse SA), and that would quite possibly screw with any travelling or any kind of visa you might ever want to do for the rest of your life. I'd prefer not to have spend the rest of my life with a nagging worry in the back of my mind wondering, every single day, is today the day they find out I'm not here legitimately. Maybe you can do it without that worry, I can't.




Interesting, I'm part Russian Jewish and part Lithuanian Jewish. If you can 'prove' your Jewish heritage (at least one grandparent if I understand it correctly (not clear to me if it must be maternal)) you may quality for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return (regardless if you or your parents/grandparents have been there); it's also an option I've been looking at, but what puts me off is compulsory and regular military conscription for all citizens until you're +/- 50 years of age. I doubt I'd have any claim to a Russian or Lithuanian passport at this point but it might be possible ... don't think I can prove that heritage though at this point.




In theory, yes, but the world runs on double standards, there are different rules for partially subjugated races.

Lol, thanks for the info, Israel? Id rather take my chances around Menlyn Mall thanks ;D

 

[Skinner]

Gauteng is part of SA. A big part of it. Go live in Gauteng for a while.

Why would I want to go live in that sh1thole if I can live in the Cape?

 

[boramk]

Oh hell SA is ****!!!!

No wait it isnt!!

No it is!!!

 

[Skinner]

I give up, it still looks contradictory to me, help us out.

SA in the whole is going down a.k.a. crashing and burning. This is a generalised statement comparing it to other 1st world countries (mostly). That does not mean that (1) there are parts of SA that does not contribute to its image of "going down" and (2) by having the right attitude and applying your skills in the right way, you cannot make it work for yourself.

Because SA is going down, there are many challenges that you would still encounter even if you find your paradise somewhere (likely in the Cape, as per my suggestions). I do not deny that. Inflation is one big problem, as an example. This affects the whole country. However, as per my belt-tightening advice from a while ago, if you forfeit your desire to impress the Jones' and don't buy depreciating assets if you cannot afford them, your belt-tightening exercises will be to your own good benefit. Really.

People come here and just complain about SA's problems, which I admit it has, but that does not exclude you from getting out of bed, pulling the finger out and putting your shoulder to the grinding stone. SA has become a tough place. Very tough (still not as tough as Europe in some aspects). Success means attaining a go-getter attitude, focusing on solutions instead of problems, working VERY hard, living and/or working in the right location in SA, saving your money & general good money management, and making the right study / career / business decisions.

But sitting on internet forums just whinging away about problems and accusing others that give good advice as trolling because you do not like the advice, does little to alleviate your own dire situation's problems. Not to mention, whinging is quite irritating.

You may argue whinging will help and that is the only way to get the message across. WRONG. Whinging will NOT help. The time for that has come and past. Government will NOT listen to whinging. No-one will help. There will be no relief. The situation will not improve. This is evident from the last 8 years - everyone moaning but nothing improved. So why should it improve in the next 8 years? Why bother keeping on moaning? Rather work on solutions for yourself.

I hope you understand my stance and viewpoints now. As for my advice: use it / don't use it

 

[Turtle]

Lol, thanks for the info, Israel? Id rather take my chances around Menlyn Mall thanks ;D

lol .. true .. it does sound a bit like FRYING PAN -> FIRE doesn't it? i think in most 'everyday' ways though you're actually safer there, but the region remains volatile.

Incidentally I'm currently in Cape Town at the moment on business, and it's really a helluva lot better than Gauteng in almost every way imaginable. (For now.) I'm 'sold'. But, it's still part of SA. It's still highly unsafe (by first-world standards), but clearly far far safer still than Gauteng. And I don't think we can solve SA's problems ourselves by "not whinging" and "working at it". It's impossible. It's beyond our power and means, short of annexing the Western Cape. We're passengers in a bigger process. But to any Gautenger who wants to remain in SA anyway, seriously, come look at Cape Town or surrounding regions.

 

[Skinner]

lol .. true .. it does sound a bit like FRYING PAN -> FIRE doesn't it? i think in most 'everyday' ways though you're actually safer there, but the region remains volatile.

Incidentally I'm currently in Cape Town at the moment on business, and it's really a helluva lot better than Gauteng in almost every way imaginable. (For now.) I'm 'sold'. But, it's still part of SA. It's still highly unsafe (by first-world standards), but clearly far far safer still than Gauteng. And I don't think we can solve SA's problems ourselves by "not whinging" and "working at it". It's impossible. It's beyond our power and means, short of annexing the Western Cape. We're passengers in a bigger process. But to any Gautenger who wants to remain in SA anyway, seriously, come look at Cape Town or surrounding regions.

Well said.

Along with Capetownguy's post in the other thread, I think it is clear to everyone now that Cape Town is definately safer than Gauteng.

 

[MacNabs]

Guys, I fully agree, Cape Town will always be safer than anywhere in
Gauteng. To the Gautengers it will always look like this safe haven, a
better option than emigrating. However, its just lagging a few years behind
gauteng, maybe 5-10 years? The crime in Gauteng is getting worse, the same
goes for the Cape.



Sure you can feel safe in certain parts of Cape Town, we did. In fact when
we moved there from Gauteng to the Cape we thought it was paradise, however
the same issues we experienced in Gauteng, started happening in CT too,
house robberies, hijacking etc etc… Even if you living in a quiet little
town somewhere, one has to get out. And that is where the risk is, no matter
where you are staying, you at risk all the time. Travelling to Gauteng on
business is another risk.



Stellenbosch is a nice little village, but from my experiences their
Skinner, its far from safe. Don't know what you smoking or who you are
trying to fool mate. Here is a link to the crime stats in Stellenbosh, 25
murders, 14 attempted murders, 43 rapes, 952 burglaries, 1158 thefts out of
motor vehicles (are there 1158 cars in stellenbosh?) Yip its paradise, a
criminals paradise.



http://www.saps.gov.za/statistics/reports/crimestats/2008/_provinces/w_cape/pdf/stellenbosch.pdf



I would not let my kids walk the streets by their by themselves, let alone
dropping them off at the local Mall for the day, any mall in SA for that
matter. Even if Stellenbosch was safe, the problem is you may work in CT,
then you got to drive the N2 into town everyday, try to survive those taxis,
and lets just say that's probably one of the worst roads in the country to
break down on, I would say your chances of being mugged/murdered on that
road if you did break down are extremely high, even higher if you a female.
It use to worry the cr@p out of me when the wife and kids went to the
airport to pick up family and friends. Maybe I was just being paranoid? But
a road running through a township the size of Cape Town itself, with
probably 500k unemployed people living in poverty on each side of the road,
cannot be safe! Mummy daddy I need to peee, not now son, you gonna have to
do it in your pants, can't stop here.



Big difference between CT and JHB, everybody knows where the bad areas in
JHB are, and they easy to avoid, problem with CT, you have to drive a lot
through the bad areas, you cant avoid them. Its always a risk.

 

[Skinner]

Stellenbosch is a nice little village, but from my experiences their Skinner, its far from safe. Don't know what you smoking or who you are trying to fool mate. Here is a link to the crime stats in Stellenbosh, 25 murders, 14 attempted murders, 43 rapes, 952 burglaries, 1158 thefts out of motor vehicles (are there 1158 cars in stellenbosh?) Yip its paradise, a criminals paradise.

I'll take a wild guess and state that most of these murders are in lower income suburbs or settlements outside of Stellenbosch (but still inside of the police precinct) like Cloetesville, Idasville, etc.

And I'll take the same guess for any other major town in the WC.
Most of the figures come from specific suburbs on the periphery, or right inside the CBD itself.

Do some research, ask around, and you will find your suburb in any town where the chances are lowest. Granted probably still higher than 1st world countries but sure as hell easier than emmigrating.

Even if Stellenbosch was safe, the problem is you may work in CT,
then you got to drive the N2 into town everyday, try to survive those taxis,
and lets just say that's probably one of the worst roads in the country to
break down on, I would say your chances of being mugged/murdered on that
road if you did break down are extremely high

1) I myself have been travelling that N2 for many years every day, including up to 1.5 years ago, yes past the most "dangerous" parts, and never had a problem. Neither anyone else I know that still travels that road everyday.
2) Buy a reliable car.
3) Don't use the N2 at night.

It use to worry the cr@p out of me when the wife and kids went to the
airport to pick up family and friends. Maybe I was just being paranoid?

Had my girlfriend and other family members pick me up from that airport many times, including using the N2 and some of the other "dangerous" access roads.
Never had a problem.

But
a road running through a township the size of Cape Town itself, with
probably 500k unemployed people living in poverty on each side of the road,
cannot be safe!

Granted it is not foolproof but remember it is a HIGHWAY.
I.e. many cars travel on it. It is quite well patrolled by cops as well. They will not start throwing stones and placing cows / retreads in the road in the bright daylight with medium-to-heavy traffic speeding past. I'd be more concerned about guys scaling the division wall, trying to cross sides. For that, you just have to watch your speed and keep your eyes open. Same story for the R300.

Mummy daddy I need to peee, not now son, you gonna have to
do it in your pants, can't stop here.

Use one of the Engen One-Stops.
There are many roads in SA (and elsewhere in the road) where it is either forbidden or impossible (due to mountain / cliff / high-speed traffic) to pull over. What would you have done then?

Big difference between CT and JHB, everybody knows where the bad areas in
JHB are, and they easy to avoid, problem with CT, you have to drive a lot
through the bad areas, you cant avoid them. Its always a risk.

Yes you can avoid them. Tell me the area you cannot avoid, and I can tell you a detour right now. And no I'm not talking about a 100km detour. Cape Town has enough roads.

 

[alloytoo]

Guys, I fully agree, Cape Town will always be safer than anywhere in
Gauteng. To the Gautengers it will always look like this safe haven

Wife's cousin thought that, they're now packing for Auckland one home invasion later.

Auckland is a beautiful safe city BTW.

 

[Skinner]

Wife's cousin thought that, they're now packing for Auckland one home invasion later.

Auckland is a beautiful safe city BTW.

And **** expensive as hell.

By the way, where exactly in Cape Town did they live?

 

[alloytoo]

And **** expensive as hell.

Nope, not at all. Accommodation is more expensive than say Hamilton, but not so as one can't make ends meet.

Kiwis may be complaining about increased fuel & grocery bills, but it doesn't seem to have effected their behaviour at all.

South Africans by contrast seem to be slipping into poverty.

Once you've factored in the school fees, medical bills, & your expensive BMW it's a lot cheaper to work and live in Auckland. (also much more pleasant)

By the way, where exactly in Cape Town did they live?

It doesn't matter, it's less safe than Auckland no matter where they stayed.

 

[TooFastTim]

Forget it Marc, there's no way Skinner will see it.

 

[alloytoo]

Forget it Marc, there's no way Skinner will see it.

He's on the list of people I plan to give to NZ immigration for exclusion.....it's mostly family.....but I'll add him anyway.

I couldn't get over just how safe Auckland CBD felt.

 

[Skinner]

Nope, not at all. Accommodation is more expensive than say Hamilton, but not so as one can't make ends meet.

Interesting then, that Auckland is still considered the 78th most expensive city in the world (2006): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
Cape Town is not even on the list

South Africans by contrast seem to be slipping into poverty.

Probably most of them but not all. In my opinion it is still reasonably easy in SA to ensure you fall into the "not all" category.

Once you've factored in the school fees, medical bills, & your expensive BMW it's a lot cheaper to work and live in Auckland. (also much more pleasant)

Don't know about you but Cape Town was pretty damn pleasant and fun the last time I was there (6 months ago)

It doesn't matter, it's less safe than Auckland no matter where they stayed.

Yes it doesn't matter and yes Auckland is safer than CPT, but still I would be interested in which area they stayed in, so that I can avoid it when I go live there again. This is helpful information you can provide and may save my life or anyone else's that may read this who also plan on moving to Cape Town. So please, do us a favour, if only as a matter of curiosity at least, and tell us where exactly in Cape Town this happened? Please?

 

[alloytoo]

Interesting then, that Auckland is still considered the 78th most expensive city in the world (2006): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
Cape Town is not even on the list

Expense is relative to income. How many capetonians don't even have an income.

Yes it doesn't matter and yes Auckland is safer than CPT, but still I would be interested in which area they stayed in, so that I can avoid it when I go live there again. This is helpful information you can provide and may save my life or anyone else's that may read this who also plan on moving to Cape Town. So please, do us a favour, if only as a matter of curiosity at least, and tell us where exactly in Cape Town this happened? Please?

Avoid African cities.

 

[SuPaStA]

Getting tired of this idiot skinner now, do you work for the government by any chance?.

I lived in CPT and I can tell you its not the crime free/safe haven as you making it out.

To be exact I lived in the southern suburbs/Kenilworth at one point in time it was a safe place (about 7 years ago) but I slowly started seeing crime take over the southern suburbs, hijackings in broad daylight/armed robberies/killings...

This seemed to coincide with the increase of Nigerians moving into the southern suburbs.I now live in th UK more jobs/opportunities/more money, ya the weather is *** but I can always jump on a plane and fly to another country for a long weekend.

 

[Skinner]

Expense is relative to income. How many capetonians don't even have an income.

There are many people in the world in many great 1st world country cities also without income.
Besides, if you lived in Cape Town, would you have an income? I would.

By the way, did you even read the article?

Avoid African cities.

I ask you again, not just for myself but for the others here: please let us know in which part of Cape Town this happened. I.e. the specific suburb e.g. Observatory. Why are you so reluctant to provide helpful information? If we know where this happened, we could take this into account when moving there.

Or did this never happen?