Whites leaving SA in droves

Turiko

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Oh dear... we've now gone to a mine is better than yours contest.

For what it's worth I choose not to care about NZ or AUS.... They're in the back of my mind as potential refuge should things go really belly up here!

Otherwise I am here, having fun and enjoying my life in sunny SA and really getting value out of this forum :)
 

samuelp

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Some facts on New Zealand :
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/nz.html
http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyr...A017C4BFF6CA/0/Chapter5_Externalmigration.pdf

A lot of skilled peoples leave New Zealand for Australia or UK

People from Pacific Islands or Asia move to New Zealand, who are less skilled. So may be within 20 years New Zealand won't be a lovely place lo live in.

Don't forget Maori's and other Pacific Islanders revendications

By the way, about 2 000 SA citizens relocate to NZ and about 400 NZ citizens relocate to SA every year
 

Kimosabe

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I used to live there Badprop. Great place. Love it, i'll be moving back soon.
When I came from NZ to SA, I never knew what racism was, it was only until I lived and worked here do I understand it and experience it every single day.
 

samuelp

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I used to live there Badprop. Great place. Love it, i'll be moving back soon.
When I came from NZ to SA, I never knew what racism was, it was only until I lived and worked here do I understand it and experience it every single day.

Is there no racism in New Zealand ? I don't think so, especially in the Northern Island
 

Skinner

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Tough questions? Skinner, firstly why would you want to live inside the city? Obviously the houses are more expensive like everywhere else in the world (except JHB)
Some people want / need to live in cities, for work or whatever reason, and that is why it would make sense to compare inner-city house prices in NZ with those of SA.

Try the lower 9% mark for the NZ home interest rate. And through my company I can probably get around 8.5%.
That's not what I saw when I looked at mortgage institutions' bond interest rate offerings in NZ - I saw figures around 10-11%.

Again your comparisons with SA fall very short, SA is now at around 15%? The difference in interest rates alone between SA/NZ, taking into account the monthly levies on some places in SA, security etc, actually make them very comparable in price.
Most people I know can get bond interest rates for houses in SA, lower than 15%. It all has to do with your credit history, I suppose if you arrive new in NZ you don't have much of a NZ-based credit history to show (they won't give a rat's @ss for your good credit back in SA), or any other country for that matter, you basically have to start building up credentials from scratch. Which may take years. While in the meantime you sit with problems like banks that doesn't want to give you lower interest rates, exactly because of this issue.

I am no financial guru, but I am pretty sure that the amount you end up paying after interest between a house here in NZ (8.5%) and one in SA (15% and rising all the time) works out to be quiet a lot of money, you probably end up paying far more for a R1.8m house in SA than a $300k or maybe even a $400k house here in NZ.
I don't think the interest rates differences are so big, as explained above.

No stupid levies to pay either (+/- R700pm?), and no armed response (+/- R300pm?)!!
Mickey mouse money. Come on.

No worrying about parking the car in the road
What, no garage? Where would you work on your car? Wash it? Pack things in? Out on the street like a common mongrel? Don't you value your own private closed garage, where you can do with your car what you want and in peace? With enough space, without other cars parked in front or back, jamming your space as you move around the car?? Typical 1st world problem, this.

removing the radio every night, making sure your alarm is active and the car is locked, no more of that rubbish.
Your chances of having a lock-up garage as part of your own home, in SA, are much better than in most 1st world countries.

1) What did it cost: A lot of money no lies, fortunately for me company paid for our container, flights, accommodation until we found a rental etc...
Well, unfortunately many people who would emmigrate would not have the luxury of their new employer paying for all or some of the moving and settling costs. So count yourself lucky - I know many people who emmigrated who had to pay everything from their own pockets. And it amounted to thousands and thousands, usually eating up most of the capital they wanted to take with to their new country. Be warned!
 

Skinner

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To add to what samuelp is discussing:
NZ is considered to be a "2nd best alternative". Aussies look down on NZ as a "2nd hand backyard", just an option if you are not good enough to make it in / into Australia. I wonder why so many people here want to go to NZ when they can go for Australia, for that matter? Australia is to NZ like VW is to Skoda.
 

samuelp

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Australia is not Heaven but definitely one of the best place in the world.

I hope the Australian governement won't transform this place to hell like what happened in France, Sweden, Austria or even Italy and Spain
 

onebrickshort

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Lets clear something up The big money and the majority of people considering emigration have already long ago emigrated
What we have left are the fence sitters People like Mcnabs who are deluded in justification thinkingThe majority of us choose to stay in SA either because we love it, come what may, and we'll deal with things as they happen-or we don't have the financial means to do anything else, like emigrate to the arse end of the world
On the bright and sunny flip side of the coin people actually immigrate to South Africa in huge numbers from the EU, the far East, Russia and the US. Just ask any number of immigration lawyers- Gary Eisenberg Associates, for example and check out all the advertising that the immigration lawyers are splattering over our media.
So, in closing, for those that seek greener pastures, there are others that regard South Africa as greener pastures too.
 

Turtle

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Good for You Mcnab. *Claps Politely*.
Just leave the rest of us to get on with living in SA will you.
Most of us couldn't give a rat's arse about NZ. Heck , I've Kiwi Friends who've fled NZ out of sheer boredom

If you don't give a rat's arse then why bother posting in this thread? Nobody is forcing you to leave SA. I don't give a rat's arse about stamp-collecting, I don't post rabid comments in stamp-collecting forums, I just don't read them at all.
 

onebrickshort

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If you don't give a rat's arse then why bother posting in this thread? Nobody is forcing you to leave SA. I don't give a rat's arse about stamp-collecting, I don't post rabid comments in stamp-collecting forums, I just don't read them at all.

Ohh. Turtle Please don't get me started on stamp collectors now.:D
 

Skinner

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FACT: SA has better weather than most other 1st world countries.
Fact: SA has a wide range of weather conditions, some of it good, some of it bad. This applies to many countries.
Okay then, let's rephrase: The average weather of SA is much better than most 1st world countries. Just the simple logical and physical fact that most 1st world countries (bar Australia and maybz NZ) are at higher latitudes than SA, means that these countries get less sun than SA. Less sun = poorer weather.

FACT: Most 1st world countries tax you sh**less.
Fact: So does SA. Our marginal tax rate is 40%, Vat, fuel & banking levies, import duties.....
For the same income in SA you will pay less tax than for the same income in most 1st world countries, taking into account the tax scales per income level they apply. This takes into account the string of social taxes you have to pay on top of that, which could be either seperately construed or as part of your base tax figure.

FACT: Living costs and consumer costs are still cheaper in SA than most other 1st world countries.
Not when you factor in state benefits, and the benefits of reliable public transport systems
I didn't say anything about benefits. I was talking about the costs itself. I can also say that most things in SA cost less but are of cheaper quality. Doesn't change the fact that they are still cheaper, which was my original point.

FACT: You WILL get lonely at some point or other, after emmigrating.
Fact: Most of my friends are waiting for me.
Well then you are lucky. Not everyone wishing to emmigrate are able to choose a destination where South African friends are waiting for them there.

FACT: Statistically your chances of being a victim of crime in SA, can be lowered depending on where you live and how you protect yourself.
Fact: That's what you're supposed to pay taxes for.
I don't see how this relate. Sure if you pay tax you expect to be protected. That does not mean that if you don't, there is nothing you can do as alternative. Simply move to a safer region or suburb. I do not know why, after I have explained this over and over, people still don't seem to get this. I promise you, there WILL be Jones's at your new safer location in SA, where you can impress them with your new Beemer. So what's the problem then? Just move. :)

Fact2: Even if you do all those things the odds of being effected by crime are still astronomically higher than in other places.
No it isn't. There are many suburbs in SA where murder and rape levels are nil (refer to figures quoted in other threads), and where the remaining petty crime levels (theft, etc.) are comparible to many other cities in 1st world countries. I promise you, while your lawnmower may be nicked in Stellenbosch from your lawn, you will be stabbed with a knife in a part of London.

FACT: Emmigration is very difficult and very expensive, even more so with a family.
Fact: My mate worked 7 days a week in SA. Now he works 5 and can afford to take unpaid leave to travel.
Did he keep the same type of work? What type of work was that?
Maybe it works like this in NZ, come to Europe and see if you can manage that. Ha ha! You will have simply too much work.

FACT: Health Care is NOT for free in most 1st world countries. You either pay for it in your taxes (which are hell high, as mentioned) or monthly payments.
This is true, finanicial recovery usually takes 2 years, however Stress levels decline in a couple of weeks.
I don't see how you can call this "recovery", it's not as if your monthly healthcare payments (granted, n/a to NZ) will get less or disappear. Regarding stress levels - maybe NZ and AU are not that bad... try Europe, you'll want to kill yourself even after 2 or 3 years. It is just so depressing. And I'm not talking out of personal experience.

FACT: No-one cares about your fading culture in your new overseas country.
Fact: No-One cares about my fading culture here.
True. But at least in SA you can find millions of other people who share your culture. Culture has strength in numbers.
So, how many would you have in NZ? 50? 100? :D

Fact: health care is not free in SA, you pay for it in your taxes, which are hellishly high and then again for private health care if you actually want to survive the trip to the hospital.
Taxes which are lower than 1st world country taxes.
With private health care costs STILL lower than the taxes you pay in 1st world countries. R700 per person for hospital plan in SA is Mickey Mouse money man. You want to know how much you pay for public healthcare in many 1st world countries (except NZ)? Sit down first before I tell you.

FACT: South Africans are generally regarded as know-littles and of relative low importance, in 1st world countries.
Fact: They're generally regarded as hard workers if they keep their ego's in check.
Yes! Which is where South Africans are unfortunately increasingly f***** things up for themselves in many overseas countries, notably UK/London, from what I'm hearing.
And again, European countries don't care where you come from or even bothing wasting a second thinking if you come from this-and-that country, you must be a hard worker.... YOU JUST GET THE WORK AND YOU MUST FINISH IT. Yesterday already. Please, thank you.

FACT: You will ABANDON your families in SA. And friends.
Fact: You will be opening opportunities for them.
I don't see how. Most 1st world countries require you to be a citizen of that country first (which takes many years), before they can possibly enter the country easier because they have family (you) there. As for friends, this does not count. And I promise you, "Hi boss, I have another friends from SA that are also coming here in 3 months, do you have a job for him too" will have no additional beneficial effect. Especially in places like Europe. They simply DON'T CARE.

FACT: Visiting SA for holidays in future will become even more expensive, as flight prices skyrocket.
Fact: it will become a nice cheap destination as the rand declines. (But really who wants to visit here again?)
I was referring to the cost of flight tickets.

Reply continued in next post...
 

Skinner

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(continued...)
FACT: For some jobs, you can earn nearly the same money in SA as in a 1st world country.
Fact: You can earn that money in a first world country with less chance of being hijacked en route to said job.
True, but this is off my point. Crime / hijack = different topic. I was referring to the salaries of certain positions in SA vs other countries. Try not to mix points.

FACT: You cannot vote in foreign countries until you become a citizen - which is difficult and takes years and years.
Fact: You are wrong.
Oh really? Name me some countries where you can vote on just a residential permit a.k.a. not citizen a.k.a. worthless immigrant.

FACT: Culture shock is a reality in many foreign countries.
Fact: Not if you choose your destination wisely.
True, but as said earlier above, many people don't have much choice in terms of where they want to emmigrate to. One main factor here would probably be, employment, i.e. where they can find something in their field.

FACT: Beaurocracy is a nightmare in many 1st world countries. In SA, things are just so much simpler.
Fact: you haven't visited home affairs lately. (oh and by simpler you mean bribable)
True, but who said anything about Home Affairs?
Try opening a company in a 1st world country. Try doing business. Try finalising legal contracts. Try building a house. Try buying a house. Hell, try RENTING a house! Things which are all easier and with less paperwork in SA. Not all Beaurocracy refers to just issues with a country's Home Affairs offices!

FACT: Your chances of being able to afford & own a house in a 1st world country, is even worse than in SA. House prices in 1st world countries are just total madness.
Fact: the chances are about the same, perhaps better if you factor in the lower overall cost of living.
Overall lower cost of living?? I thought it was clear that 1st world countries have overall higher cost of living!!?
And the money you make extra that could possibly compensate (which is a common myth), is quickly eaten up by the dreaded social taxes you have to pay in many 1st world countries. If that's not the case for NZ, then super. But as I pointed out before, many people might not be able to / want to go to NZ.

FACT: Likely you will have to live in some small flat for the first months (or years) of your life in your new foreign country.
As apposed to? A shack?
You lived in a shack in SA? Come on.

FACT: Making friends in many 1st world countries is much more difficult than you think.
Nah, it's more difficult for you, I have friends all over the world.
What kind of friends? Real good intimate friends from foreign cultures and countries? Or just work-related friends (i.e. colleagues) or the ones you meet at bars and pubs or on the internet? Not to pick on you or imply these are the type of friends you have, but as a general comment / observation, these type of friends are easy to make anywhere in the world, but it's the real true friends that are easy to make in SA but difficult elsewhere in the world, that's the issue here.

I can make a friend in SA and cry on his shoulder or laugh at his wedding 1 week after meeting him. Try this in any other 1st world country, and he'll have you arrested :D OK maybe exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea.

FACT: Petrol cost on average double, in 1st world countries, than what it costs in SA.
It's called public transport, safe, reliable. notwithstanding that the actual cost of your vehicle is a fraction of what it is here.
Public transport, yeah... how do you transport your packs of groceries? Or big things you have bought from shops, like a grill/barbeque dish? How do you get to the parks and dams outside of the city?
Then we won't even mention the packed public transport in summer, or in morning work rush, sweaty armpits of those around you, cramming in, dogs, stinking smells, bottles rolling around inside... strangers sitting next to you, throwing up... disgusting.
You really think you can do without a car? Ha! Try Europe or some other 1st world country big cities.
And regarding the cost of the vehicle - cheaper than SA yes, but not when taking into account the licencing, taxes and running costs (maintenance, fuel) of the vehicle! Then cars are much, much more expensive than in SA!! This is what many emmigrants don't realise when they go overseas, thinking "Hey, cars are cheaper, I will get such a cool car!" and they are NAILED and SHOCKED when they have to start paying the after-sales costs!! KA-BLAM!! :D

So, final FACT: Considering all of the above, SA might not be such a bad place to stay in. It's not like there is some criminal waiting behind every rock and bush to jump out and rip your guts out.

So lets recap, we pay the same, if not more tax
Less tax.

we get less state services
You don't need them. If you do, make a different plan.

we run higher risks of theft, rape and murder,
Depending where in SA you live.

and the chief of police is part of organised crime.
What does this matter to you? Are YOU the chief of police and worried you get thrown in jail or double-crossed by your chronies? If not, then why worry?

My culture is being consistantly eroded
I never got this impression living in the Western Cape. Some of my Afrikaans classes at Uni changed to English-language, who cares. Big deal. English is better for some types of industries (e.g. IT) anyways.

and I'm subject to creeping poverty and economic exclusion as I try to maintain my standard of living.
Belt-tightening is currently a worldwide phenomenan.
You won't escape it by fleeing SA.

Indeed, a veritable paradise.
It is, if you make it for yourself to be, and pull the finger out. If you sit around and throw your hands in the air, and complain all the time, instead of doing something contructive, I can understand why SA would be hell for you, yes.
("you" does not necessarily mean YOU, alloytoo!)

Most of your facts demonstate your ignorance. The remainder demonstrate your personality.
You have a problem with a positive go-getter personality, and a person who focuses on the solutions instead of the problems?
 
Last edited:

Skinner

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Lets clear something up The big money and the majority of people considering emigration have already long ago emigrated
What we have left are the fence sitters People like Mcnabs who are deluded in justification thinkingThe majority of us choose to stay in SA either because we love it, come what may, and we'll deal with things as they happen-or we don't have the financial means to do anything else, like emigrate to the arse end of the world
On the bright and sunny flip side of the coin people actually immigrate to South Africa in huge numbers from the EU, the far East, Russia and the US. Just ask any number of immigration lawyers- Gary Eisenberg Associates, for example and check out all the advertising that the immigration lawyers are splattering over our media.
So, in closing, for those that seek greener pastures, there are others that regard South Africa as greener pastures too.

Excellent! Yes, excellent! Well said! :cool:
Especially the arse end of the world (a.k.a. NZ!) part :D:D
 

MacNabs

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Is there no racism in New Zealand ? I don't think so, especially in the Northern Island

*cough* *cough* Racisim between who? I live on the North Island, sure there are some jokes sometimes about the Maoris, but compared to the hatred between the blacks/whites in SA, the ANC and the citizens of the country its nothing comparable. Get your facts straight. I have not once experienced any sort of racism here, in any form. :D

Some people want / need to live in cities, for work or whatever reason, and that is why it would make sense to compare inner-city house prices in NZ with those of SA.

OK, so lets compare living in JHB Inner city and Auckland inner city, Obviously Auckland is going to be more expensive. JHB is rated as one of the cheapest cities in the world to live in. I wonder why :p

That's not what I saw when I looked at mortgage institutions' bond interest rate offerings in NZ - I saw figures around 10-11%.

Look again.

Most people I know can get bond interest rates for houses in SA, lower than 15%. It all has to do with your credit history, I suppose if you arrive new in NZ you don't have much of a NZ-based credit history to show (they won't give a rat's @ss for your good credit back in SA), or any other country for that matter, you basically have to start building up credentials from scratch. Which may take years. While in the meantime you sit with problems like banks that doesn't want to give you lower interest rates, exactly because of this issue.

I don't think the interest rates differences are so big, as explained above.

They are big, like I said in another post, yesterday NZ lowered the interest rates here. They keep going up in SA. 15% is bl00dy madness, and I feel for all of those that are battling to survive in SA just to keep up with the payments.

Mickey mouse money. Come on.

What, no garage? Where would you work on your car? Wash it? Pack things in? Out on the street like a common mongrel? Don't you value your own private closed garage, where you can do with your car what you want and in peace? With enough space, without other cars parked in front or back, jamming your space as you move around the car?? Typical 1st world problem, this.

Dude, catch a wake up. We often park in the street because just sometimes its easier. Our garage is full of crap in boxes that we have not unpacked since moving here. There is no need to rush and get the garage sorted just to get the car inside.

Your chances of having a lock-up garage as part of your own home, in SA, are much better than in most 1st world countries.

As above, we have a double garage, full of cr@p right now. Why are we discussing garages?

Well, unfortunately many people who would emmigrate would not have the luxury of their new employer paying for all or some of the moving and settling costs. So count yourself lucky - I know many people who emmigrated who had to pay everything from their own pockets. And it amounted to thousands and thousands, usually eating up most of the capital they wanted to take with to their new country. Be warned!

Like I said I was lucky, however this is the done thing for a lot of companies here in NZ when recruiting, Many of the South Africans I works with have been just as lucky. Obviously if you come over as a plumber or something its not going to happen. I don't see any SA companies doing the same, trying to lure the expats back?


To add to what samuelp is discussing:
NZ is considered to be a "2nd best alternative". Aussies look down on NZ as a "2nd hand backyard", just an option if you are not good enough to make it in / into Australia. I wonder why so many people here want to go to NZ when they can go for Australia, for that matter? Australia is to NZ like VW is to Skoda.

NZ is better than AUS for raising kids, Auckland was voted the 4th best city in the world to live in, beating all Australian cities. Wellington came out at number 9, also beating all AUS cities except for Sydney.
Search for the thread, its on here somewhere.

No African cities even feature.

What makes Aus better? Aus is just like NZ on a bigger scale. Sure NZ is a bit easier to get into, but once you have your NZ citizenship, you can just move to AUS. Now I wonder why all the South Africans here in NZ have not moved over since acquiring citizenship? sure some have, but the majority of south africans like it here, and they end up staying here.

Lets clear something up The big money and the majority of people considering emigration have already long ago emigrated
What we have left are the fence sitters People like Mcnabs who are deluded in justification thinkingThe majority of us choose to stay in SA either because we love it, come what may, and we'll deal with things as they happen-or we don't have the financial means to do anything else, like emigrate to the arse end of the world
On the bright and sunny flip side of the coin people actually immigrate to South Africa in huge numbers from the EU, the far East, Russia and the US. Just ask any number of immigration lawyers- Gary Eisenberg Associates, for example and check out all the advertising that the immigration lawyers are splattering over our media.
So, in closing, for those that seek greener pastures, there are others that regard South Africa as greener pastures too.

You really are onebrickshort! Read the topic of the thread. Whites leaving SA in droves. Maybe read the article before posting.
 

MacNabs

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FACT: SA has better weather than most other 1st world countries.

Okay then, let's rephrase: The average weather of SA is much better than most 1st world countries. Just the simple logical and physical fact that most 1st world countries (bar Australia and maybz NZ) are at higher latitudes than SA, means that these countries get less sun than SA. Less sun = poorer weather.

FACT: Most 1st world countries tax you sh**less.

For the same income in SA you will pay less tax than for the same income in most 1st world countries, taking into account the tax scales per income level they apply. This takes into account the string of social taxes you have to pay on top of that, which could be either seperately construed or as part of your base tax figure.

FACT: Living costs and consumer costs are still cheaper in SA than most other 1st world countries.

I didn't say anything about benefits. I was talking about the costs itself. I can also say that most things in SA cost less but are of cheaper quality. Doesn't change the fact that they are still cheaper, which was my original point.

FACT: You WILL get lonely at some point or other, after emmigrating.

Well then you are lucky. Not everyone wishing to emmigrate are able to choose a destination where South African friends are waiting for them there.

FACT: Statistically your chances of being a victim of crime in SA, can be lowered depending on where you live and how you protect yourself.

I don't see how this relate. Sure if you pay tax you expect to be protected. That does not mean that if you don't, there is nothing you can do as alternative. Simply move to a safer region or suburb. I do not know why, after I have explained this over and over, people still don't seem to get this. I promise you, there WILL be Jones's at your new safer location in SA, where you can impress them with your new Beemer. So what's the problem then? Just move. :)


No it isn't. There are many suburbs in SA where murder and rape levels are nil (refer to figures quoted in other threads), and where the remaining petty crime levels (theft, etc.) are comparible to many other cities in 1st world countries. I promise you, while your lawnmower may be nicked in Stellenbosch from your lawn, you will be stabbed with a knife in a part of London.

FACT: Emmigration is very difficult and very expensive, even more so with a family.

Did he keep the same type of work? What type of work was that?
Maybe it works like this in NZ, come to Europe and see if you can manage that. Ha ha! You will have simply too much work.

FACT: Health Care is NOT for free in most 1st world countries. You either pay for it in your taxes (which are hell high, as mentioned) or monthly payments.

I don't see how you can call this "recovery", it's not as if your monthly healthcare payments (granted, n/a to NZ) will get less or disappear. Regarding stress levels - maybe NZ and AU are not that bad... try Europe, you'll want to kill yourself even after 2 or 3 years. It is just so depressing. And I'm not talking out of personal experience.

FACT: No-one cares about your fading culture in your new overseas country.

True. But at least in SA you can find millions of other people who share your culture. Culture has strength in numbers.
So, how many would you have in NZ? 50? 100? :D


Taxes which are lower than 1st world country taxes.
With private health care costs STILL lower than the taxes you pay in 1st world countries. R700 per person for hospital plan in SA is Mickey Mouse money man. You want to know how much you pay for public healthcare in many 1st world countries (except NZ)? Sit down first before I tell you.

FACT: South Africans are generally regarded as know-littles and of relative low importance, in 1st world countries.

Yes! Which is where South Africans are unfortunately increasingly f***** things up for themselves in many overseas countries, notably UK/London, from what I'm hearing.
And again, European countries don't care where you come from or even bothing wasting a second thinking if you come from this-and-that country, you must be a hard worker.... YOU JUST GET THE WORK AND YOU MUST FINISH IT. Yesterday already. Please, thank you.

FACT: You will ABANDON your families in SA. And friends.

I don't see how. Most 1st world countries require you to be a citizen of that country first (which takes many years), before they can possibly enter the country easier because they have family (you) there. As for friends, this does not count. And I promise you, "Hi boss, I have another friends from SA that are also coming here in 3 months, do you have a job for him too" will have no additional beneficial effect. Especially in places like Europe. They simply DON'T CARE.

FACT: Visiting SA for holidays in future will become even more expensive, as flight prices skyrocket.

I was referring to the cost of flight tickets.

Reply continued in next post...

FACT: Tired now of reading your facts
 

TooFastTim

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You really are a wuckfit. You have no idea.

Fact: Residency visa holders get the vote in NZ. (two years for citizenship and the vote in Aus)
Fact: Half an hour to do a drivers license conversion (from SA).
Fact: Two forms signed on the bonnet of the owners car bonnet secured rental.
Fact: Opening a business here is easier than SA (no quotas, no levies etc)

And that's just the start.

You're clueless. If you had half an idea you'd put up better arguments than you do. And ego? Boy do you have an overinflated opinion of you're own brilliance. Legend in your own lunchbox aren't you? Go-getter? My arse.

Like I said earlier, you're free to sprout uniformed rubbish as you please and we must defend our informed opinion? Use your overinflated cranium for something useful and research your facts in future.
 

onebrickshort

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*
You really are onebrickshort! Read the topic of the thread. Whites leaving SA in droves. Maybe read the article before posting.


I've read so much claptrap from you on this thread, so I feel it's my civic duty to warn all your neighbours to watch their sheep:D
 

MacNabs

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694
Some facts on New Zealand :
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/nz.html
http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyr...A017C4BFF6CA/0/Chapter5_Externalmigration.pdf

A lot of skilled peoples leave New Zealand for Australia or UK

People from Pacific Islands or Asia move to New Zealand, who are less skilled. So may be within 20 years New Zealand won't be a lovely place lo live in.

Don't forget Maori's and other Pacific Islanders revendications

By the way, about 2 000 SA citizens relocate to NZ and about 400 NZ citizens relocate to SA every year

Yes NZ has a problem with some people leaving for AUS/UK etc.. but guess what, most of these people come back!!! This should be seen as an opportunity for South African's, if it was not for this, many of us would not be here. As for the amount of people here from the UK and europe, I am meeting them all the time. many people are moving from the UK to AUS/NZ for the better lifestyle.

What are you on about with Maori's and other Pacific Islanders revendications? Maori's have always been here (10% of the population), as for the Pacific Islanders I have seen a few around. Think I saw one the week before last. Not sure though. :p
 
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