Who is the best president in South Africa's democratic history?

Who is the best president in South Africa's democratic history?

  • Nelson Mandela

    Votes: 70 35.0%

  • Thabo Mbeki

    Votes: 102 51.0%

  • Kgalema Motlanthe

    Votes: 17 8.5%

  • Jacob Zuma

    Votes: 7 3.5%

  • Cyril Ramaphosa

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • Total voters
    200
  • Nelson Mandela - 6/10 (Done what he had to do during a transitional period by not rocking the boat too much.)
  • Thabo Mbeki - 5/10 (His stance on HIV/Aids and failure to head Eskom's warnings and pleas have done extensive, long-term damage to the country, undermining much of his legacy.)
  • Kgalema Motlanthe - NA/10 (Not enough time spent in office to fairly assess him. Didn't seem awful and we may well have been better off under him than Zuma.)
  • Jacob Zuma - I don't think there is a negative number low enough to rate this treasonous filth. Should end his life at the end of a rope for what he done to the country.
  • Cyril Ramaphosa - 0/10 (Aside from not doing anything to undo Zuma's devastation of the country, he was on the NEC when Zuma and his handlers were pillaging the state. The stuffed couch, BELA, NHI and EWC not doing him any favours either.)
 
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My view re: Mandela is very simple, feel free to "debate" me:

Mandela as a statesman is firmly in the "good to great" territory.

Why? Building relations & unifying people. Amongst many other things. In many instances unmatched.

We're talking case study vibes here.
 
It literally pained me to select Mbeki on the poll. I never liked the guy, but; out of the lot, I don't have a better option.
 
Okay, Kgalema Motlanthe. He didn't have enough time to really set up a netork of corruption.
 
every single one corrupt and had a fair share in destroying SA
 
Jet-Fighter7700 said:
even if he was slightly mad, considering beetroot and garlic cure Aids.
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I mean Steve Jobs wanted to treat his cancer with herbal remedies and it had a good survival rates with medical treatment since it was the non-agressive kind.
Nobody could change his mind.
 
thestaggy said:
  • Nelson Mandela - 6/10 (Done what he had to do during a transitional period by not rocking the boat too much.)
  • Thabo Mbeki - 5/10 (His stance on HIV/Aids and failure to head Eskom's warnings and pleas have done extensive, long-term damage to the country, undermining much of his legacy.)
  • Kgalema Motlanthe - NA/10 (Not enough time spent in office to fairly assess him. Didn't seem awful and we may well have been better off under him than Zuma.)
  • Jacob Zuma - I don't think there is a negative number low enough to rate this treasonous filth. Should end his life at the end of a rope for what he done to the country.
  • Cyril Ramaphosa - 0/10 (Aside from not doing anything to undo Zuma's devastation of the country, he was on the NEC when Zuma and his handlers were pillaging the state. The stuffed couch, BELA, NHI and EWC not doing him any favours either.)
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I wont blame Thabo for HIV. Sadly the best way to kill a virus that can not be cured, is to let it die out. As evil as it may be. We now have far more people that's HIV positive, and we spend billions annually on it. It expands each year by about 150 000 people.

As for Eskom...read it and weep...

The former president said the first time South Africa experienced a national electricity shutdown, known as load-shedding, was in January 2008.

“It was a national shutdown. The mines closed for a whole week. It was a serious crisis,” Mbeki told delegates.

“The argument was that Eskom had told the government in 1998 that there must be investment in new generation capacity and infrastructure.”

“The narrative was that the government did not listen, which caused the blackouts in January 2008. That story was false. That story was cooked up.”

He said the true reason for load-shedding in January 2008 was because the people in charge of the power stations did not do what they were supposed to do – replenish coal.

“The power stations ran out of coal. It was not because there was no coal in the country. The people inside Eskom decided ‘let’s shut it down’,” Mbeki said.

“The lie was told that the government was to blame for load-shedding because of a lack of investment. It was not true.”
He reduced our govt debt hugely, we survived the 2008 economic world market crash, and ran a deficit surplus.
And then SAA, Zuma and his gf tanked SAA afterwards.
1738843124243.png
2007 some of them (we all love Skytrax)


1738843225643.png

Our Govt debt to GDP. That little before 2012 was due to mbeki, then Zuma came around, added 3 trillion debt, and ramaphosa another 3 trillion
1738843485503.png
 
Getting HIV figures some say a few billion others say about R400 billion a year.

Its a lot.

Basically its equivalent to the entire income Eskom receives from the Public a year. So yip free electricity for all.
 
Corelli said:
I wont blame Thabo for HIV. Sadly the best way to kill a virus that can not be cured, is to let it die out. As evil as it may be. We now have far more people that's HIV positive, and we spend billions annually on it. It expands each year by about 150 000 people.

As for Eskom...read it and weep...

The former president said the first time South Africa experienced a national electricity shutdown, known as load-shedding, was in January 2008.

“It was a national shutdown. The mines closed for a whole week. It was a serious crisis,” Mbeki told delegates.

“The argument was that Eskom had told the government in 1998 that there must be investment in new generation capacity and infrastructure.”

“The narrative was that the government did not listen, which caused the blackouts in January 2008. That story was false. That story was cooked up.”

He said the true reason for load-shedding in January 2008 was because the people in charge of the power stations did not do what they were supposed to do – replenish coal.

“The power stations ran out of coal. It was not because there was no coal in the country. The people inside Eskom decided ‘let’s shut it down’,” Mbeki said.

“The lie was told that the government was to blame for load-shedding because of a lack of investment. It was not true.”
He reduced our govt debt hugely, we survived the 2008 economic world market crash, and ran a deficit surplus.
And then SAA, Zuma and his gf tanked SAA afterwards.
View attachment 1794090
2007 some of them (we all love Skytrax)


View attachment 1794091

Our Govt debt to GDP. That little before 2012 was due to mbeki, then Zuma came around, added 3 trillion debt, and ramaphosa another 3 trillion
View attachment 1794094
Click to expand...

As for Eskom, read it and weep...

Article from 2008 - https://www.news24.com/news24/the-people-in-power-20080130

Thabo Mbeki
"When Eskom said to the government: 'We think we must invest more in terms of electricity generation'... We said not now, later. We were wrong. Eskom was right. We were wrong."
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Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka
"Maybe we were pessimists who did not believe in our economic growth."

In 2003 Mlambo-Ngcuka said there was no looming power crisis. She said then-Eskom CEO Thulani Gcabashe assured her SA would never run out of power. Late in January, Mlambo-Ngcuka admitted that government had got it wrong and apologised to SA for numerous blackouts.
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Jeff Radebe

It is claimed that during his time as Public Enterprises Minister, he failed to approve Eskom's proposals to start building new power plants.

According to the media, five urgent memos landed on his desk during crucial loadshedding some time ago, begging him for a decision. Radebe's theory was that new international roleplayers would emerge, providing competition to Eskom. It has now been accepted that this did not materialise.
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Alec Erwin
"The decision to charge Eskom with the responsibility to embark on a large and urgent build programme in 2004 was in hindsight, late. The president has accepted that this government got its timing wrong."

Alec Erwin has come under harsh criticism for the way in which he has handled the country's latest electricity crisis. He was also slammed for his comments following the December 2005 outages at Koeberg power station. At the time, he claimed a bolt which damaged a generator was put there through "sabotage". Later he denied using the word and said he referred to the act of interfering with electrical installations as being sabotage.
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Buyelwa Sonjica
"Go to sleep earlier so that you can grow and be cleverer. Boil less water".

On Wednesday January 30 2008, she told Cabinet that she wanted South Africans to go to bed earlier to help save power. Her comments were widely slated and she was also criticised for her initial silence as load shedding was paralysing SA homes and businesses from late 2007 to early 2008.
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Mbeki's administration is directly responsible for loadshedding because they done vokol to avert it, even in cases outright lying about it. And as is entrenched ANC tradition, things only started happening far too late to avert the looming crisis.

I mean really, one of Mbeki's Energy Ministers literally said go to bed early and boil less water to save power...
 
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RudderVator said:
I mean Steve Jobs wanted to treat his cancer with herbal remedies and it had a good survival rates with medical treatment since it was the non-agressive kind.
Nobody could change his mind.
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he also washed his feet in the Toilet and kept renting cars without a numberplate on them,
weird guy, weirder products, just like Mbeki with his Garlic and beetroot fetish.
 
Tie between Mbeki and Mandela. They basically told the trade unions and communist to fark off and they implemented GEAR, which is actually an extremely reasonable and conservative economic policy.

https://www.anc1912.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Umrabulo-Issue-2-2nd-Quarter-1997.pdf

Economically, between 1997 and 2007, the country actually got richer and unemployment went down. Not to mention the government reduced the deficit and ended up with a small surplus.
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Snotface said:
Okay, Kgalema Motlanthe. He didn't have enough time to really set up a netork of corruption.
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This isn’t quite right. Kgalema was a Zuma puppet. He signed an order disbanding the Scorpions, and he fired a NDPP under Zuma orders.
 
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