Who is / was Christ?

Neo

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
1,168
I tried to explain grace to you which you are to hard-headed to understand...
If you can tell me why Paul took TITUS a greek with him when he went to jerusalem and you are correct...
Because Paul was not a pukka Jew and did not know anyone....
Then i will tell you what Paul's mission was and what the mission of Peter was.
Untill such time you do not unferstand anything... you only think you do...
Why are you avoiding my questions?

Because you have no proof for the divine inspiration of the bible and you obviously don't know about the issues between Paul, James and Peter?

I'm the first to admit I understand very little (but I try), can only base my understanding on studying as many different sources as possible.

Working with facts (and not what someone brainwashed into you) is a bitch, I agree, it really distorts things. We should just do away with all facts, they're just a nuisance, ask Paul.

So lets ignore all relevant facts and rather just make up what we want to believe. Wait a minute, we've been there, was called the Dark Ages.... :rolleyes:
 

kilps

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
2,620
Large parts of the OT was blatantly copied from other religions. Fact. Been debated / discussed / proven on this forum often enough.
Do you mind pointing out the thread? I'm not sure what you are referring to ... thanks
 

Mr TB

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,776
Because Paul was not a pukka Jew and did not know anyone....


Why are you avoiding my questions?

Because you have no proof for the divine inspiration of the bible and you obviously don't know about the issues between Paul, James and Peter?

I'm the first to admit I understand very little (but I try), can only base my understanding on studying as many different sources as possible.

Working with facts (and not what someone brainwashed into you) is a bitch, I agree, it really distorts things. We should just do away with all facts, they're just a nuisance, ask Paul.

So lets ignore all relevant facts and rather just make up what we want to believe. Wait a minute, we've been there, was called the Dark Ages.... :rolleyes:
NEO, you do not understand grace and if you do not understand grace you will never understand a single one of Pual's teachings. It is indeed because of grace that he rebuked Peter and Peter knowing that he was wrong accepted it... but you , you are ignorant and want your way to be the right way...

And you , if god disappears what disappear?, a distrinction between right and wrong, you can do as you like no rsponsibility that's why all of you are hanging onto this so-called proven theories, it releases you of responsibilty...
 
Last edited:

Mr TB

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,776
Do you actually know who Paul was and his differences with Peter and James (who was the true leader of the early church after his boet disappeared)?

Why do you think Paul acted so paranoid? He had no clue who or what J esus was and ended up arguing with everyone on this, including James but especially Peter.
PETER was a JEW used to the LAW, although with his MASTER he learned it to be a guideline not a rulebook.
PETER was designated to preach the GOSPEL to the JEWS, once filled with the Holy Spirit he indeed followed that mission.

PAUL on the other hand also a JEW, but a well drilled Pharisee was persecuting the early church, then had an encounter with CHRIST, changing him completely... He was designated to preach the GOSPEL to the heathen which he did...PAUL was schooled by CHRIST for this mission...

PAUL and PETER Will therefore sometimes differ in opinion until PAUL can explain, using his knowledge of The Tora what CHRIST and GRACE are about.
 

Mr TB

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,776
PETER was designated to preached the GOSPEL to the JEWS.

and

PAUL was designated to preach the GOSPEL to the heathen.
Why are you crying about leadership?... Christ is head of the CHURCH.

Where the "i", the selfish me, pride, turns up... Christ doesn't come along...
 

Claymore

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
7,513
And you , if god disappears what disappear?, a distrinction between right and wrong, you can do as you like no rsponsibility that's why all of you are hanging onto this so-called proven theories, it releases you of responsibilty...
So, if I understand you correctly, only Christians (Jews and Muslims too?) have a sense of right and wrong?

Sadly, statistics of prisoners in jail in the US does not bear this idea out at all; in fact, quite the contrary.
 

kilo39

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
5,425
I am not trying to prove he was not unique, merely stating that no evidence has been provided to prove his uniqueness, i.e. that he did something no-one has ever done before or since. You claim he is unique. What proof do you have that he came up with all this on his own? You assume he was isolated from all outside influence. We have no definite evidence that he did not combine ideas he picked up from others just as many others had done before him. Especially since similar ideas arose elsewhere hundreds years earlier.

There is no requirement that ***** travelled to the east since knowledge from the east could easily have made its way to Palestine, either directly due to travellers from those locations or indirectly via knowledge picked up by the Romans. Such movements of culture are fairly common, even in those times.

When someone claims they came up with something similar to someone else's idea all on their own they'd have to demonstrate they had no contact with the other person's ideas.
To go back aways: I was arguing the east from the perspective of the far east. Somewhere (this thread?) it was discussed middle, near, far east.

After an extensive rereading of the texts :D I come to the following conclusion:

The story of the 3 kings at the birth: "Matthew also tells of the "Wise Men" or "Magi" who brought gifts to the infant ***** after following a star which they believed was a sign that the Messiah, or King of the Jews, had been born"
*****

The best known Magi are the "Wise Men from the East" in the Bible, whose graves Marco Polo claimed to have seen in what is today the district of Saveh, in Tehran, Iran.
-
It's also believed by some Christians that the Jewish prophet Daniel was "rab mag" and entrusted a Messianic vision (to be announced in due time by a "star") to a secret sect of the Magi for its eventual fulfillment (Daniel 4:9; 5: 11)
-
Later they accepted the Zoroastrian religion, not without changing the original message of its founder, Zarathustra (Zoroaster
),
Magi

According to Herodotus i.101, the "Magi" were the sixth tribe of the Medians (until the unification of the Persian empire under Cyrus the Great, all Iranians were referred to as Mede or Mada by the peoples of the Ancient World), who appear to have been the priestly caste of the Mesopotamian-influenced branch of Zoroastrianism today known as "Zurvanism", and who wielded considerable influence at the courts of the Median emperors.
-
In the 1st century CE, the magi were known as astrologers and they appear as such in a nativity story of *****.
-
Zoroastrianism is uniquely important in the history of religion because of its possible formative links to both Western Abrahamic and Eastern dharmic religious traditions.
-
According to Mary Boyce "Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed credal religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly or indirectly, than any other single faith... some of its leading doctrines were adopted by Judaism, Christianity and Islam". (Boyce, 1979, pg 1) Zoroastrianism has been proposed as the source of some of the most important post-Torah aspects of Judaic religious thinking, which emerged after the Babylonian captivity, from which Jews were liberated by Cyrus the Great.

This is also a view put forward by King and Moore, who wrote in The Gnostics and Their Remains that

it was from this very creed of Zoroaster that the Jews derived all the angelology of their religion... the belief in a future state; of rewards and punishments, ... the soul's immortality, and the Last Judgment - all of them essential parts of the Zoroastrian scheme. (King, 1887)
Many traits of this ancient religion can be traced back to the culture and beliefs of the proto-Indo-Iranian period, and Zoroastrianism consequently shares some elements with the Vedic faiths that also have their origins in that era. In fact, in many ways, although Zoroastrianism presents a similar philosophy as the Vedic faiths, it tends to present an "alternate viewpoint" that seems influenced primarily by a difference in perception. However, Zoroastrianism was also strongly affected by the later culture of the Iranian Heroic Age (1500 BC onwards), an influence that the Indic religions were not subject to. Nonetheless, scholars have used evidence from the texts of both religious systems to reconstruct the earlier stage of proto-Indo-Iranian beliefs and culture. This has also formed attempts to characterise the even earlier Proto-Indo-European religion, and so determine the process by which Dyeus became Jupiter, Sabazios, Zeus, and Tyr.

Zoroastrianism

Modern Hinduism grew out of the knowledge described in the Vedas. The earliest of these, the Rigveda, centers on worship of deities such as Indra, Varuna and Agni, and on the Soma ritual. The early Indo-Aryans would perform fire-sacrifices, called yajña (????), with the chanting of the Vedic mantras, but they built no temples, idols or icons. Probably animals were also sacrificed in larger yajñas, as claimed by Buddhist and Jain texts. The most ancient Vedic traditions exhibit strong similarities to Zoroastrianism, as well as to other Indo-European religions.
Hinduism
-
-
So essentially we are dealing with the aspects of one religion: the knowledge of the tribes (passed down through time, much of it oral.)

No doubt (though I make an assumption) christ was given the teachings of Zoroastrianism which in themselves is tied into Hinduism. We are actually discussing our very roots as human beings and the knowledge we have learnt over thousands of years, ever since we walked erect. Our first separation of self from the environment. And in fact the 'first religions' are synomous with mans first conscious thoughts, ie, cave paintings, efforts to record and control the environment.

Seems we walked the wrong way and only found the sea at the mediterranean.

... and having said all the above I still argue ***** was unique. Walked on water (though I hear this is common in india :p ) Brought the dead to life. Performed miracles, is/was this not unique.

Further: got to say we have available much of the secret texts of the old religions. Powerful stuff. Out there on the internet. Should we even be discussing it?

//and really absurdity rises to new levels: here we are with our own sub-section on religion/faith but Je3us is still banned!! :mad: HTF are we supposed to have a discussion if we can't even post a url! :mad:
 

nocilah

Banned
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
7,624
The story of the 3 kings at the birth: "Matthew also tells of the "Wise Men" or "Magi" who brought gifts to the infant ***** after following a star which they believed was a sign that the Messiah, or King of the Jews, had been born"
*****
they were never mentioned as kings ever. they were wise men or travelers.
 

bk.ru

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
599
i always admire the perserverance of stupid people.

no where in the BIBLE are they mentioned as Kings.

songs we learned in preschool are just that. songs we learned in preschool
I also love stupid people :) No where in my post did I say the bible mentions kings. I simply quoted a song, your aggressive religious mind did the rest.
 

nocilah

Banned
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
7,624
Actually no where in the Bible does it mention a number of wise men. we assume this from the gifts they bore.

so we have wise men which through ghastly songs and nativity scenes have been turned into 3 kings?
 

nocilah

Banned
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
7,624
I also love stupid people :) No where in my post did I say the bible mentions kings. I simply quoted a song, your aggressive religious mind did the rest.
love? where do i say love?

not religious at all ;)
 
Last edited:

kilo39

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
5,425
Sorry my typo: kings is irrelevant to my post, meant magi. Came from here:

Matthew also tells of the "Wise Men" or "Magi" who brought gifts to the infant ***** after following a star which they believed was a sign that the Messiah, or King of the Jews, had been born (Matthew 2:1-12)
wikipedia/je3us

and here:

The best known Magi are the "Wise Men from the East" in the Bible, whose graves Marco Polo claimed to have seen in what is today the district of Saveh, in Tehran, Iran.
wikipedia/magi

touchy :p
 

nocilah

Banned
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
7,624
Sorry my typo: kings is irrelevant to my post, meant magi. Came from here:

Matthew also tells of the "Wise Men" or "Magi" who brought gifts to the infant ***** after following a star which they believed was a sign that the Messiah, or King of the Jews, had been born (Matthew 2:1-12)
wikipedia/je3us

and here:

The best known Magi are the "Wise Men from the East" in the Bible, whose graves Marco Polo claimed to have seen in what is today the district of Saveh, in Tehran, Iran.
wikipedia/magi

touchy :p
just pointing out a common mistake. which is 3 kings.
 

JTerry

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
1
What shall one say about all you have written.

Apparently what you believe to be true you have written in opposition to who might have say what. That is not my quarrel.

The thing that is important is this.

Why is it that Jesus_Christ is the one they (mainly the west) are trying to marginalize. The focus from the critics are not on religion but on Christianity.

For you would not find any evidence of the existence of _Christ and his Godliness for _Christ himself said: "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

And like Thomas of old: John 20:24 24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The end of the matter is this. Jesus never ever forced anyone to believe in him. The ancient powers that be bid many things in _Christ name but did it for there own sake (money).

If you don't believe in him, why wast your energy hating something you don't believe in. For you can not hate something you don't believe to be true.

For believe are what Christianity revolves around. If you believe in Jesus_Christ my saviour you are a Christian and if you don't, you are not.

For the Devil will try to degrade _Christ and Christianity for he knows his time is limited. For the elect of Jesus_Christ will never waver under all lies being mastered against his Holy Name.

My prayer are that all will see this, but I know that only 'n few (relative term) will see God's Kingdom.

For I don't try to degrade any other religion for I believe it to be false, but only trough the Truth (_Jesus) will people believe.

The Holy Ghost is the power that drive people like myself to speak up and are the power on earth that made Christianity grow.

Go and read the Bible, and if it's to long, only read the 4 Gospels and if you are of the elect, something inside you (Holy Ghost)will move you to think an believe in Jesus_Christ my savior.

Why did _Jesus said the following "2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said,Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Because, a little child do believe in something without he being able to see it. For he who ponders only on the Scientific side of Christianity will not be able to believe in Him for it will be impossible since he can't verify His existence with solid tangible evidence.
 
Last edited:

Mr TB

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,776
What shall one say about all you have written.

Apparently what you believe to be true you have written in opposition to who might have say what. That is not my quarrel.

The thing that is important is this.

Why is it that Jesus_Christ is the one they (mainly the west) are trying to marginalize. The focus from the critics are not on religion but on Christianity.

For you would not find any evidence of the existence of _Christ and his Godliness for _Christ himself said: "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

And like Thomas of old: John 20:24 24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The end of the matter is this. Jesus never ever forced anyone to believe in him. The ancient powers that be bid many things in _Christ name but did it for there own sake (money).

If you don't believe in him, why wast your energy hating something you don't believe in. For you can not hate something you don't believe to be true.

For believe are what Christianity revolves around. If you believe in Jesus_Christ my saviour you are a Christian and if you don't, you are not.

For the Devil will try to degrade _Christ and Christianity for he knows his time is limited. For the elect of Jesus_Christ will never waver under all lies being mastered against his Holy Name.

My prayer are that all will see this, but I know that only 'n few (relative term) will see God's Kingdom.

For I don't try to degrade any other religion for I believe it to be false, but only trough the Truth (_Jesus) will people believe.

The Holy Ghost is the power that drive people like myself to speak up and are the power on earth that made Christianity grow.

Go and read the Bible, and if it's to long, only read the 4 Gospels and if you are of the elect, something inside you (Holy Ghost)will move you to think an believe in Jesus_Christ my savior.

Why did _Jesus said the following "2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said,Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Because, a little child do believe in something without he being able to see it. For he who ponders only on the Scientific side of Christianity will not be able to believe in Him for it will be impossible since he can't verify His existence with solid tangible evidence.
Thanking you JTERRY for certain you have brought to mind... Thomas not willing to believe unless he puts his fingers in the holes in his hands......
and
The child... if we are not willing to believe like little children we will not see the kingdom of heaven....

These two verses clears up the madness surrounding "evidence".
 

Mr TB

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,776
Just for the record concerning the name of christ j esus attacked in either this or one of the other threads...

QUOTE:
"My point here is simple. Let’s not get so hung up on our pronunciation of
Hebrew terms that we become snobs -- or worse -- gnostics! For those
raised with the Latin-based alphabet in English speaking countries, His
Name is Jesus Christ - and it is good!


Shalom to you... and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you."
 
Top