Why do people generalise gay men as Effeminate?

[|tera|]

It's a sad reality of life on this planet that so much abuse is going on all the time in so many different ways. I also endured a form of it for 13 years and recognising it has also helped. Although as you say, it is very hard to look at yourself as the victim because it's embarrasing and depressing to see yourself being taken advantage of. I think I was able to recover quickly because of the better situation I found myself in fairly quickly, but it sounds like your journey has been much longer. I do hope though that you can even now being to see how the journey has made your stronger and have an identity that belongs to you alone. The identity which we project out in front of us should hopefully match who we are inside very closely. I firmly believe that we become more self actualised when our projected persona matches our internal person.

Sorry to hear that you endured abuse as well. It's good to hear you were able to deal with it quickly.
It's still a bit difficult to let my outer persona match my internal persona. This might be because I've been in a life where most people I know don't accept anyone that is not living up to their standards.
I'm not trying to victimise myself, but there are some really judgmental people that won't accept my true self.
I'm not perfect by any means and have made a lot of bad choices in life, but I've learned that even though I'm alone in life, I'd rather be alone than face the disgust of people around me. The reality is that some people say they don't care who you are, but their actions don't reflect that.
I've got an extremely sensitive nature and people know that, so they prey on my weakness. Mental abuse by people towards me is worse than just avoiding them.

 

[satanboy]

1. Realistically you'll never have a place where everybody feels welcome.
2. Your posts on this forum have it a hostile environment for many as well, so why is it different?
3. I abhor the under-the-surface racism in the workplace as well, but complaining to management, contributes to said hostile environment and puts a target on your back. It's not like they'll magically stop being sexist/racist because of your reporting them. I prefer engaging and questioning the people on their views( which has certainly led to me being vehemently sworn at )

1) I guess
2) Moi? If anyone is hurt by me they are free to report me.
3) That is why it has been referred to an HR specialist.
If everyone feared reporting issues, there would be no witnesses in any court case. I am just sick of a small group of people at work making it uncomfortable for myself (and others). In fact, I stated in my report that I would not be mentioning names of the accused.

 

[kolaval]

2. Report you for what, hurting their feelings?

 

[kolaval]

I refuse to use the designated "xxxxx" area already

What area are you referring to?

 

[grok]

I was molested at a very young age by a guy.
I got a lot of flack from some people that were older than me for not being the 'norm'.
This flack from some family members and people in my vicinity caused me to doubt myself and my sexuality for years.
Right now in my life I've been celibate for many years and don't have any sexual lifestyle, but I would still place myself in the bisexual camp.
Whether being bisexual was 'caused' by what happened to me is a hit and miss though. I spent more years fighting against being gay than finally making peace with who I am.
This is probably the first time I've mentioned who I am to anyone in this thread. You can see I don't have any social capability

Gives high five!

And a slap on the bum..

 

[satanboy]

What area are you referring to?

A general area on the floor where you get away from your workstation, eat, relax and watch tv.

 

[kolaval]

Oh lordy. Buckle in kids...

So do tell then: how is one orientation distinct from another in it's origin? By what biological device does this operate?

Let me guess: gay people are mentally ill, right?

Calm down princess(thread specific pun intended), I was responding to your post without reading the prior posts.

I don't see the relation of gay to mental illness?
Though claiming it to be rooted in biology (and ignoring the glaring evidence of vagina+penis=baby) kinda sounds like flat earthers doing their thing.

Gay is such a fascinating subject though, with interesting thought experiments.
-What makes you gay? Is it attraction in general to someone of the same sex or a specific someone?
-Can you separate being gay from sexual stimulation?
If someone had no genitals could they be gay?
Since we men will screw just about anything, if I were in a dark room getting a blow job and I thought it was a woman, but it turned out to be a man, am I gay?
Does having anal with a guy make me gay but anal with a woman not?

 

[Asgard85]

Calm down princess(thread specific pun intended), I was responding to your post without reading the prior posts.

I don't see the relation of gay to mental illness?
Though claiming it to be rooted in biology (and ignoring the glaring evidence of vagina+penis=baby) kinda sounds like flat earthers doing their thing.

Gay is such a fascinating subject though, with interesting thought experiments.
-What makes you gay? Is it attraction in general to someone of the same sex or a specific someone?
-Can you separate being gay from sexual stimulation?
If someone had no genitals could they be gay?
Since we men will screw just about anything, if I were in a dark room getting a blow job and I thought it was a woman, but it turned out to be a man, am I gay?
Does having anal with a guy make me gay but anal with a woman not?

To simplify try and think of it this way: what makes you gay is about who you are attracted to and not what you do.
So no, participating in certain sexual activities does not make one gay - feel free to return to whatever darkroom you fancy.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Calm down princess(thread specific pun intended), I was responding to your post without reading the prior posts.
/snip

“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

 

[kolaval]

To simplify try and think of it this way: what makes you gay is about who you are attracted to and not what you do.
So no, participating in certain sexual activities does not make one gay

Grabs a mirror and lotion...


@SlinkyMike So we're not going to discuss it?

 

[SlinkyMike]

Grabs a mirror and lotion...


@SlinkyMike So we're not going to discuss it?

Definitely not. You sir, are a moron.

 

[|tera|]

To simplify try and think of it this way: what makes you gay is about who you are attracted to and not what you do.
So no, participating in certain sexual activities does not make one gay - feel free to return to whatever darkroom you fancy.

I agree with your post, however there are people attracted to both men and women.
It's also not just an attraction. Sometimes it could be because people really like the person they are with. Enjoying the person's company and actually have a real solid relationship with. To me and my mind I don't differentiate between gay or straight.
If you actually want to refer to the Bible, Jesus never differentiates between men and women.

New King James Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus

 

[epah]

Haha. I won't call it therapeutic It feels weird mentioning it though.

WiFi HuG

 

[Splinter]

So I left out the Bisexual.

You are either trolling us, or very naive.

or fearful of your own sexuality.

I think it's the last. Too much denial going on here.

Fancy that. Rietrot is interested in manne-riet.

 

[konfab]

I've seen it a couple of times. Normal guys, but when they come out of the closet their voice get all squeaky and they start acting more like the stereotypical gay guy.

Couple of reasons (though I am speculating here, would be interesting to see if there are any studies on it)
1) To signal to other people that they are gay (because they are a boring person and thus they need to signal to everyone that they are special)
2) Woman have higher voices and care much more about their look than men. Thus when gay men do the same, they are trying to latch onto the same circuitry that straight men use to gauge attractiveness in women. Because of this, I would hypothesise that the stereotypically gay guys are usually on the bottom, whilst the "normal" gay guys are usually on the top.

 

[Splinter]

I don't know why you want to bring the Bible into this. You seem a bit emotional, relax and try again. What do you disagree with?

Everything you have said.

 

[copacetic]

I disagree that bisexual men could choose or have a choice in their sexuality.
Due to my past and what I've been through I have been in the middle of my sexuality for most of my life.
Yes, I have had denial about it and don't live the lifestyle, but as per gay men, I don't think I've got a choice about it.

I was perhaps not being clear - What I mean is that a theoretical bisexual person, right in the middle of the spectrum of sexual desire (between attraction to males and females) has a choice in how they engage with other people sexually. By definition, bisexuality is simply enables a broader scope of humanity to lust after.

It doesn't mean you have to act on it, but compared to 'strict' homosexuals and heterosexuals, obviously if a person falls in the middle, then choice becomes much more relevant (and frankly, it seems like a pretty good place to be - Strikes me as a good path to some pure hedonism....)

The thing we obviously don't have much choice in, ultimately, is who or what we are attracted to in the first place, be it milfs, animals, children, car exhaust pipes, or consenting adults of all kinds. Some of that is nature, some nurture and probably a mixture of both for the basics of sexuality.

But I feel that outside of specific and trauma-related experiences, and the various kinks people can develop for so many reasons; the choice of whether you like man bits, lady bits, or both, is pretty much built in to us from the age we start developing sexually. I also don't understand why people get so worked up about it. Why does it even matter?

 

[|tera|]

I was perhaps not being clear - What I mean is that a theoretical bisexual person, right in the middle of the spectrum of sexual desire (between attraction to males and females) has a choice in how they engage with other people sexually. By definition, bisexuality is simply enables a broader scope of humanity to lust after.

It doesn't mean you have to act on it, but compared to 'strict' homosexuals and heterosexuals, obviously if a person falls in the middle, then choice becomes much more relevant (and frankly, it seems like a pretty good place to be - Strikes me as a good path to some pure hedonism....)

The thing we obviously don't have much choice in, ultimately, is who or what we are attracted to in the first place, be it milfs, animals, children, car exhaust pipes, or consenting adults of all kinds. Some of that is nature, some nurture and probably a mixture of both for the basics of sexuality.

But I feel that outside of specific and trauma-related experiences, and the various kinks people can develop for so many reasons; the choice of whether you like man bits, lady bits, or both, is pretty much built in to us from the age we start developing sexually. I also don't understand why people get so worked up about it. Why does it even matter?

I don't agree that bisexual people are heading to, or want a hedonistic lifestyle.
Pleasure isn't the only goal of sex in any case.
Being intimate with someone goes beyond just screwing, even if it is pleasurable.
Why do bisexual people have more control and choice due their sexuality than gay or heterosexual people? That doesn't make sense to me. That might be your opinion, but it's not true.

 

[Asgard85]

I agree with your post, however there are people attracted to both men and women.
It's also not just an attraction. Sometimes it could be because people really like the person they are with. Enjoying the person's company and actually have a real solid relationship with. To me and my mind I don't differentiate between gay or straight.
If you actually want to refer to the Bible, Jesus never differentiates between men and women.

New King James Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus

I was explicitly simplifying it as far as possible in order to demonstrate that it is in fact not so cut and dry as "oh i did xyz and now I'm gay", as if there exists a set of rules written in stone. For your example simply replace "gay" with "bisexual" or whichever label is under discussion.
So sure, of course there is plenty of nuance and everyone has a different experience.

 

[Asgard85]

I was perhaps not being clear - What I mean is that a theoretical bisexual person, right in the middle of the spectrum of sexual desire (between attraction to males and females) has a choice in how they engage with other people sexually. By definition, bisexuality is simply enables a broader scope of humanity to lust after.

It doesn't mean you have to act on it, but compared to 'strict' homosexuals and heterosexuals, obviously if a person falls in the middle, then choice becomes much more relevant (and frankly, it seems like a pretty good place to be - Strikes me as a good path to some pure hedonism....)

The thing we obviously don't have much choice in, ultimately, is who or what we are attracted to in the first place, be it milfs, animals, children, car exhaust pipes, or consenting adults of all kinds. Some of that is nature, some nurture and probably a mixture of both for the basics of sexuality.

But I feel that outside of specific and trauma-related experiences, and the various kinks people can develop for so many reasons; the choice of whether you like man bits, lady bits, or both, is pretty much built in to us from the age we start developing sexually. I also don't understand why people get so worked up about it. Why does it even matter?

So I think this is the crux of the "choice" discussion and where much gets lost in translation. When certain people use the word "choice" they do so in order to make it seem as if being gay is a choice because it suits their narrative (ick/but Bible/some of my friends are gay, but). What many gay/bi/other people feel (and state, repeatedly) is that to be (gay/bi/other) or not to be (gay/bi/other) is not a choice and the choice is only whether or not to accept it and live "out" - with all the other choices that come with it

I know from your post that you agree with the sentiment, but it is important to make the distinction clearly from the start which aspect of choice you are discussing because it's a trigger point.