Why does bidorbuy not insist on laptop serials?

skimread

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I have been looking recently at bidorbuy and some sellers sell so many 2nd hand laptops daily for really cheap in these short 2 day auctions. On the items I checked they do list the market price but the items are typically sold for not even a 5th of the market value. When you google their business name you find nothing. I just looked at one seller and they sell like 100 items per month mostly laptops an camera lenses. Many times the seller doesn't even upload photos.

Laptop theft ouf of cars and houses is in this country is such a big problem so why don't bidorbuy force the sellers of laptops to add serials of laptops to transaction information. I can just imagine it is almost a certainty that many items that gets sold on bidorbuy are stolen. I would think it would be a cheap cop out from bidorbuy if they juststolen goods are against their TC.
 
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reactor_sa

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Probably something to do with bb not being the actual seller or buyer.
Companies like btgames, cash Converters etc have to take copies of your Id and such.
 

skimread

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Probably something to do with bb not being the actual seller or buyer.
Companies like btgames, cash Converters etc have to take copies of your Id and such.
I have been to couple of Cash Converters recently and the laptops they sell 2nd hand are so old, low spec'd and expensive, I'm surprised they will sell them.
Then you get the bid or buy laptops which are new, good spec'd and dirt cheap in 2 day auctions.

It then makes sense to me that cash converters must have strict requirements like ID being required.
 

ponder

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How are they suppose to verify the details, it's not like the items pass through them so even if required one could simply make up something or photoshop it.
 

skimread

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How are they suppose to verify the details, it's not like the items pass through them so even if required one could simply make up something or photoshop it.
IMO for those customers that sell 100s of laptops you should require company registration details.
I would imagine if one customer has a million rand sales you would want more details than just minimal info.
If a selller has a million rand sales of high tech 2nd hand goods but they dont own a physical store or have a business model to obtain 2nd hand goods then it looks suspicious like ****. Especially if every day they sell laptops are in 2 day flash sales to get rid of it as quickly as possible

People tend to be suspicious of first time sellers and will ask much more questions to verify they legitimate.
However some sellers have sold hundred of laptops. The ratings system with high number of successful sales makes those high number of sales look legitimate and they don't have to answer detailed questions from buyers as there is so much interest in their goods because it's so cheap. To me selling so many varying high spec'ed 2nd hand laptops every day in 2 day flash bids starting at R100 does make it look suspicious. How do they make profit and get so high spec recent 2nd hand laptop stock?
Also out of those hundreds of varying brand 2nd hand laptops they've never sold a 2nd hand Macbook?
 

reactor_sa

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IMO for those customers that sell 100s of laptops you should require company registration details.
I would imagine if one customer has a million rand sales you would want more details than just minimal info.
If a selller has a million rand sales of high tech 2nd hand goods but they dont own a physical store or have a business model to obtain 2nd hand goods then it looks suspicious like ****. Especially if every day they sell laptops are in 2 day flash sales to get rid of it as quickly as possible

People tend to be suspicious of first time sellers and will ask much more questions to verify they legitimate.
However some sellers have sold hundred of laptops. The ratings system with high number of successful sales makes those high number of sales look legitimate and they don't have to answer detailed questions from buyers as there is so much interest in their goods because it's so cheap. To me selling so many varying high spec'ed 2nd hand laptops every day in 2 day flash bids starting at R100 does make it look suspicious. How do they make profit and get so high spec recent 2nd hand laptop stock?
Also out of those hundreds of varying brand 2nd hand laptops they've never sold a 2nd hand Macbook?
Organised crime I guess.
 

MagicDude4Eva

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Hi there,

post some links to items / sellers and we can have a look. Remember that flash auctions are a completely different game altogether and often used for promotional purposes (i.e. to attract buyers to a seller's store).

We work actively with CCU when it comes to stolen goods and have assisted SAPS with a number of high profile cases where electronics have been stolen from warehouses. Requiring to post a serial number is in my opinion a pointless exercise as there is no universal database of valid/invalid/stolen goods - yes there are a few websites which allow registration of your serial number, but in case of theft this will hardly ever happen.

I just had a brief look at recently sold items (go here: http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/category/Winners.jsp and then drill down to Computers -> Laptops) and those laptops are all from good sellers. Many items are 2nd hand / refurbished or old stock.

PC laptops will generally go cheap. I don't think the same applies to Macs.

Feel free to post links to products / sellers here and we can all have a look. If we need to take action against sellers, we will certainly do that.
 

Hemi300c

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Also, sorry to hijack but I complained once and the items were deleted but they are appearing again. I am talking about led dash flash lights which are blue.

There is enough fake cop crimes and I honestly don't believe BoB should allow the sale of these illegal items.

Please look into this and put a stop to it for the sake of life and limb.
 

MagicDude4Eva

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Also, sorry to hijack but I complained once and the items were deleted but they are appearing again. I am talking about led dash flash lights which are blue.

There is enough fake cop crimes and I honestly don't believe BoB should allow the sale of these illegal items.

Please look into this and put a stop to it for the sake of life and limb.
No problem - each product listing has a "Report a problem" button above the product description to report a product listing. I am not aware that the purchase, possession or sale of emergency lights is illegal in SA (I do know that in certain states in the US it is illegal for a civilian to trade police related items) and such items are not prohibited from trading on our site.

We do have a strict listing policy (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/help/444/Listing_Policy) which prohibits the sale of counterfeit / illegal products and would only block the trading of such products if it does not comply with local legislation.
 

skimread

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Hi there,

post some links to items / sellers and we can have a look. Remember that flash auctions are a completely different game altogether and often used for promotional purposes (i.e. to attract buyers to a seller's store).
Let me use an example. This seller. http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/1655281/YNOT_IT
They have 6 laptops on 36 hours auction that expire midnight today. They have sold 4189 items, sell about 100 per month. Mostly sell laptops and camera lenses

Some questions come to mind:
Why for a seller that sells that quantity of expensive items via 36 hour flash sales are they not verified?
If they sell that many laptops daily why don't they even have a business adress or even website.
They do not list their stock as refurbished but list it as 2nd hand. How do they get hold of that many varying brand and good spec'ed 2nd hand laptops?
Why don't they post pics or proper pics for their auctioned items?
How do they make a profit?

When I look at the people who bid on these items often they are to people who buy a lot of goods. Those buyers could buy it and resell it under different accounts or their own 2nd hand stores because the deals are so good and for such short 36 hour periods. If resellers buy these laptops you know its a bargain and then ask why does the seller not use a standard bidorbuy auction for these items.

This seller doesn't own a physical store. Doesn't have the bidorbuy verified icon and sell laptops using flashsales all the time. I won't call this promotional. If flash sales are used for promotional items then looking at this sellers I can't see how you can call his behavior promotional. Rather looking at his history you can see he want to on a daily basis get rid of laptops as quick as possible.

Requiring to post a serial number is in my opinion a pointless exercise as there is no universal database of valid/invalid/stolen goods - yes there are a few websites which allow registration of your serial number, but in case of theft this will hardly ever happen.
There might not be an online universal database which I think is really stupid in this country as the police do keep records, however not having it creates opportunity for laundering of stolen laptops via your 36 hour flash sales by non verified users. I don't think serial numbers are in your interest as if bidborbuy required serial numbers and let say a seller is caught selling stolen laptops through your site then the police could ask to verify that seller's other 1000 laptop sales serial numbers which could PR and liability wise not be good for bb especially if it's a seller who is not verified, has over a million rand in sales and uses flash sales to get quickly rid of laptops.

I just had a brief look at recently sold items (go here: http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/category/Winners.jsp and then drill down to Computers -> Laptops) and those laptops are all from good sellers. Many items are 2nd hand / refurbished or old stock.
Yes you will have sellers that have the verified icon (good seller as you put it), provide detailed descriptions and photos. However I'm talking about sellers that don't have that icon. Let's call them bad sellers that don't use photos or bad photos, not proper description, and don't answer all questions from buyers, yet have sold thousands of items.
here is a link for someone complaining about it on bidorbuy's forum

PC laptops will generally go cheap. I don't think the same applies to Macs.
The seller says the laptops are 2nd hand, not refurbished. If the seller sells that many 2nd hand laptops I would expect that seller to sell Macbook's as well.
However Macbooks are much more difficult to reinstall, drives are glued in and iStores keep in their database a record if it has been stolen.

Feel free to post links to products / sellers here and we can all have a look. If we need to take action against sellers, we will certainly do that.
I will post a links of that same seller's 2nd hand laptops that are currently on 36 hour flash sales and end today 10 Feb 2016.


http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219237192/HP_ELITEBOOK_8470P_CORE_i5_3320M_8GB_RAM_500GB_HDD_14_DVDRW_WIN_7.html
No photos

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219237920/_DELL_LATITUDE_E6230_12_5_INTEL_CORE_i7_3520M_8GB_RAM_500GB_WEBCAM_WIN_7.html
No photos

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219239941/SAMSUNG_SERIES_5_CORE_i7_3630QM_8GB_RAM_1TB_BLU_RAY_1GB_GRAPHICS_WINDOWS_8.html
No decent photo

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219241623/_FULLHD_DELL_PRECISION_M4600_CORE_i7_2640M_2_80GHZ_8GB_RAM_1TB_HDD_DVDRW_1GB_GRAPHICS_3G_WIN_7.html
Cant even see the screen in the photos. Listed as both 2.8Ghz and 2.2.Ghz

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219243526/DELL_INSPIRON_15_3542_CORE_i5_4210U_1_70GHZ_8GB_1TB_HDD_DVDRW_15_6_WINDOWS_8.html
No Photos

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/219243537/LENOVO_X230_CORE_i5_3230M_2_6GHZ_4GB_MEMORY_500GB_HDD_3G_WINDOWS_8_PRO.html
No Photos




Just having a quick look there are other selllers that have the exact same behavior. Not verified icon. 36 hour flash sales, no photos. Good spec laptops. Selling for a fraction of the listed market value.
e.g.
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user/2100911/CGTECH
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/1733659/EZ_TECH


I would suggest you require verification for flash sale sellers. Especially if a single seller has over a million rand is sales using 36 hours flash sales. Otherwise your site could easily be used for fraud. Especially for laptops which are easily sold and quickly stolen from cars, offices and homes.
How does the tax man query these high quantity unverified sellers?

You will have that seller's full history so surely you will have to admit he is suspicious at the least.
 
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Borrels

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For me the value of requiring sellers to include serial numbers is that you, as the buyer, can afterwards compare the serial number on the item against the advert and so identify dodgy sellers. This is reactive and not many buyers will do it but you only need a few such comments on a seller to identify ones selling dodgy items.
 

skimread

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Another thing I have noticed with those sellers.

Currently the seller has 20 items on auction for at least R60 000. Most of the items are the flash auction for 36 hours.

They payment method they accept Other- Direct EFT and Bid Or Buy vouchers. If you have sold over a million rand 2nd hand laptops surely you are that big that you don't want to get paid in vouchers. If you get paid in vouchers that is tax evasion at the very least.
 

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MagicDude4Eva

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I think many aspects are misunderstood or too much is read into it:
- We run a marketplace and it is common that the auction model is used to get rid of stock quickly.
- We have sellers who dump warehouse stock for reputable companies on our platform as those companies do not want to make their margins visible to their customers and want to clear out stock.
- All sellers mentioned by OP have been trading on bidorbuy for several years (i.e. from 2010 onwards)
- All sellers mentioned have sold several thousand items and the one has received 10 negative ratings across 1900 sales and the other 25 negative ratings over 4500 sales
- All sellers are part of the buyer protection programme (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/content/23/Buyer_Protection_Programme.html) and none of the sellers had to process a claim
- There is a misconception about "bobBucks Vouchers" - a large number of our user base uses bobBucks as a payment option where sellers do not offer credit cards (or some users do not have credit cards and feel more comfortable in buying bobBucks from us instead of doing a directEFT) - the claim of "tax evasion" is non-sense as all payments are audited and recorded.
- This might surprise you, but we have sellers who run legitimate businesses out of their homes and turn over more than 500K / pm (one seller turns over more than 1,2m/pm and is 23 years old and lives with his parents) - no need for a separate website as all marketing/transactions are done on bidorbuy. Those sellers provide proper invoices, pay VAT, have registered companies and pay taxes.

From the above links to sellers and trades none of them are problematic and sellers have been trading for an extended period with good buyer feedback. If a product is sold differently to what it is advertised, buyer-protection will kick in and the buyer will be refunded from bidorbuy.

It is also not uncommon that users trading on bidorbuy purchase and resell on the same platform. When we host flash auctions (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user/1139317/bidorbuy) we actually buy products from most of our competitors and sell those either at cost or sometimes for a profit (we bought them for 400 bucks: http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/217254021/Sony_PS4_Controller_Glacier_White.html) - this is a pure marketing exercise for us (with the added satisfaction to "outsmart" our competitors with their own products) and many of our sellers run similar campaigns.
 

HideInLight

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Flipping items.

Quickly browsed some of those laptops, and most of those prices on the laptops are in reasonable price ranges of secondhand laptops.
For instance the laptop I bought a while a go for R3500 would of cost me R6500 @ retail, just because it's a year old.
In fact just opening a box can sometimes reduce the value of a laptop by 25%...
Don't forget to look at the screen sizes and graphics performance, seen a few i7's that has worst graphics performance than my i3 for double the price.

Won't deny there are some bargains there, but note retail is overpriced most of the time with 30% markup, a new battery costs in the region of R1000 with a life expectancy of just 3 years.
Secondhand laptops just lose their value really fast.
 

MagicDude4Eva

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I hope my previous post did not appear that we do nothing - most of the checking happens behind the scenes:
- We have sales velocity fraud rules in place and for new sellers we require proof of shipping and often list of serial numbers which we validate with local distributors
- Payout to new sellers is frozen until buyers confirm receipt of product and verify legitimacy of the product
- A dedicated security team which verifies sellers / transactions
- A community watch team which will check authenticity of products / sellers (a difficult process as we never see the physical product - but we frequently request samples / proof of purchase etc)

We frequently assist CCU/SAPS with bringing syndicates to book (two big cases in the last 12 months). Unfortunately many companies will not disclose theft in their warehouses / hijacking of courier trucks - hence tracking of stolen goods becomes difficult.

I think the biggest hurdle in prevention of theft and selling of stolen goods is that RICA does not work and criminals can easily obtain pre-RICA'ed SIM cards - to me, that would be the first point of call when attempting to reduce theft and resale of stolen goods.
 

skimread

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I think many aspects are misunderstood or too much is read into it:
- We run a marketplace and it is common that the auction model is used to get rid of stock quickly.
You have to admit flash sales for various high spec'ed 2nd hand laptops from a unverified seller who sells multiple laptops daily auctioning it starting at R100 in value, in 36 hour flash sales is not very common.
This is the only criteria I'm concerned about. I'm not interested in any generic auctioning marketing talk or your standard auctioning process as this spesific criteria for the reasons I've listed is suspicious at least.

- We have sellers who dump warehouse stock for reputable companies on our platform as those companies do not want to make their margins visible to their customers and want to clear out stock.
The items I have an issue with is good speced 2nd hand laptops, not refurbished, not warehouse stock. Not cellphones which can be blacklisted but 2nd hand Windows laptops. One of the things that are valued so high by criminal and gets stolen very often from homes, cars and offices because they cannot be traced.

I only have an issues with high spec'ed 2nd hand laptops from unverified sellers on day flash sales that sell items starting at R100 without any or even proper photos of the laptop

- All sellers mentioned by OP have been trading on bidorbuy for several years (i.e. from 2010 onwards)
- All sellers mentioned have sold several thousand items and the one has received 10 negative ratings across 1900 sales and the other 25 negative ratings over 4500 sales
My concern was why if they have sold so many items what is the reason they are not verified on yoru site like your other sellers. As you previously mentioned SA doesn't have a central database of serials numbers so if your laptop does get stolen and resold on bidorbuy flash sale the original owner will have to visit your site each and every day to catch it. However since most laptops of the seller don't get sold with photos, and the ones that do the seller doesn't even open the lid for you to see a unique identifier e.g. mark or a dead pixel the chances are there is no way to catch them. Hence the title of the thread why does bidorbuy not insist on laptop serials.

You can see the huge amount of 2nd laptop he sells , however one might ask where that seller gets his all those good spec laptops from. To get that amount of good spec 2nd hand laptops, and selling it starting at R100 in flash auctions ,he must have lots of people who supply him with really dirt cheap laptops. I can just imagine what those sellers sell the laptops for to him, if he sells it for so cheap.
Where do those original sellers get the 2nd hand laptops from and why do they sell it for so cheap that it can be sold at starting at R100 in a flash auction?

- All sellers are part of the buyer protection programme (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/content/23/Buyer_Protection_Programme.html) and none of the sellers had to process a claim
- There is a misconception about "bobBucks Vouchers" - a large number of our user base uses bobBucks as a payment option where sellers do not offer credit cards (or some users do not have credit cards and feel more comfortable in buying bobBucks from us instead of doing a directEFT) - the claim of "tax evasion" is non-sense as all payments are audited and recorded.
- This might surprise you, but we have sellers who run legitimate businesses out of their homes and turn over more than 500K / pm (one seller turns over more than 1,2m/pm and is 23 years old and lives with his parents) - no need for a separate website as all marketing/transactions are done on bidorbuy. Those sellers provide proper invoices, pay VAT, have registered companies and pay taxes.

From the above links to sellers and trades none of them are problematic and sellers have been trading for an extended period with good buyer feedback. If a product is sold differently to what it is advertised, buyer-protection will kick in and the buyer will be refunded from bidorbuy.

It is also not uncommon that users trading on bidorbuy purchase and resell on the same platform. When we host flash auctions (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user/1139317/bidorbuy) we actually buy products from most of our competitors and sell those either at cost or sometimes for a profit (we bought them for 400 bucks: http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/217254021/Sony_PS4_Controller_Glacier_White.html) - this is a pure marketing exercise for us (with the added satisfaction to "outsmart" our competitors with their own products) and many of our sellers run similar campaigns.
WRT the flash sales my concern was it being used to sell 2nd hand laptops. I'm not concerned with any other thing. Yes it could be used for marketing and promotional but in the example it consistently isn't.

I would feel safe if you can assure me that the seller who sells so many 2nd hand laptops comply with the 2nd hand goods act. My suspicion was that he doesn't because you don't have him listed on your website as a verified seller.

I post a link from your website of the2nd hand goods act
http://support.bidorbuy.co.za/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/196/6/compliance-with-the-second-hand-goods-act-by-dealers-who-sell-and-buy-second-hand-goods-purchased-online

Registration

Every person who carries on a business of dealing in second-hand goods is identified as a dealer and must be registered in terms of the Act. To access a copy of the registration form, please click on the link below:
http://www.saps.gov.za/services/flash/shg/saps601.pdf

Upon completion of the registration process, the respective dealer receives a prescribed certificate of registration which authorises him to carry on business in respect of second-hand goods.
This registration as a dealer remains valid for a period of five years from the date the certificate is issued and must be renewed upon expiration.
That seller is an unverified seller
http://support.bidorbuy.co.za/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/26/1/become-a-verified-user---building-trust-and-security
Become a Verified User - Building trust and security
Become a Verified User on bidorbuy.co.za for a once off R100.00 (non-refundable) registration fee.

bidorbuy will submit your details for an Identity check, Credit check and a Fraud check. Approval is at bidorbuy's discretion, based on the outcome of the checks. The process can take up to 21 days.
Surely someone who has over a million rand in sales can afford R100 to become verified.

My concern is does that seller comply with the 2nd hand goods act? Does he keep accurate record of all these 2nd hand laptops he bought and from whom as required by the act.

If anyone lists a 2nd hand laptop without photos for R100 on a 36 hour flash auction any reasonable person would be concerned about making a loss. He doesn't seem to be.

Your mentioned your buyer protection program
http://support.bidorbuy.co.za/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/30

the Buyer Protection Programme provides an additional measure of safety in the unlikely event that:
The Seller does not ship the item you purchased; or
You receive an item that is materially different than described.
but from your website you don't mentioned stolen items so your claim that buyers are protected doesn't seem to be true.

Further even if it did include theft you have the following:
The maximum amounts refundable are as follows:
R1,000 when buying from unverified Sellers
R5,000 when buying from Verified Sellers
R7,500 when buying from Basic Stores
R10,000 when buying from Advanced Stores
R12,500 when buying from Premium Stores
since the seller is unverified the maximum you get back is R1000.

It does seem odd then that a seller having sold 4000 items far exceeding a million rand in value doesn't get himself verified.

I am not attacking your business but only mentioning this specific scenario of suspicious usage pattern I picked up. If you can allay these concerns then good for you, otherwise I will still have these concerns.
 
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MagicDude4Eva

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Since I only have a basic understanding of the 2nd hands goods act, I have pointed our ops-manager to this thread and he will provide me with a detailed response by COB tomorrow.

Adding a serial number to a product listing has a few issues:
- There is no central repository to check it
- A scammer will not provide a reported serial number in the first place
- B2B feeds (such as Loot or other bigger sellers) will not attach a serial to a listing (i.e. selling 5 laptops)
- Lastly, having a serial available to a user would create another problem where scammers would use bidorbuy to "mine valid serial numbers"

I am not going to answer the other questions now, as those will be answered in more detail tomorrow.
 

skimread

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Since I only have a basic understanding of the 2nd hands goods act, I have pointed our ops-manager to this thread and he will provide me with a detailed response by COB tomorrow.

Adding a serial number to a product listing has a few issues:
- There is no central repository to check it
- A scammer will not provide a reported serial number in the first place
- B2B feeds (such as Loot or other bigger sellers) will not attach a serial to a listing (i.e. selling 5 laptops)
- Lastly, having a serial available to a user would create another problem where scammers would use bidorbuy to "mine valid serial numbers"

I am not going to answer the other questions now, as those will be answered in more detail tomorrow.
Thanks for answering.

Regarding 2nd hand laptop serial numbers I agree you cannot post it for any person to see. However to store it with the original transaction for only the winning buyer to see you will have no "mining" concern. To view when you have won the auction will be beneficial if you bought from a non verified sellers. Also bidorbuy can keep it for their records as well. When you say "scammers" won't post serial numbers then you will win by preventing unverified sellers from posting stolen laptop before those auctions get approved. This system will also incentive unverified sellers to become verified.

You mention big sellers and Loot. Big sellers like Loot AFAIK don't sell second hand laptops especially multiple per day, don't use 1 day flash sales starting at R100 but most important their identity is known. Comparing them with the activity I raised is irrelevant and nonsensical. I don't want an online auctioning 101 lesson or the water muddied. I feel I have to harp over and over and over about the specific seller behavior in your auction I'm concerned about. I don't want you to defend online auctioning in general.


I think any online auction site can be open to fraud and I'm sure you guys do tens of thousands of transactions, however I picked up a possible loophole in your system that looks like it could be unfairly abused.


I'm just concerned about a very specific possible fraud loophole combination in your system that can be abused by any seller
if they are the combination of
- 2nd hand laptops
- an unverified seller
- that have a history sell multiple good spec 2nd hand laptops per day
- starting at R100 in flash sales i.e. no profit concern
- for short duration/flash auctions i.e. 36 hours
- fo don't provide photos or provide proper photos
- don't provide details of condition e.g. scratches
- expect payment within 24 hours just via EFT or voucher



- any discussion on rating system is irrelevant as seller rating is mainly - have I received my item or not, was it falsely advertised Since sellers can also rate buyers the two normally rate each other high to avoid getting negative ratings themselves
- any discussion is the seller hasn't received a complaint is irrelevant. They might not be a fraudster themselves but if they buy laptops no question asked from the public and sell them on the cheap
- any serial number discussion for non 2nd hand laptops is irrelevant. You can't expect a guy to give serial number for small items and the original owner 90% of the time don't take note of these. However a laptop owner/his company definitively takes note of his laptop serial
- any discussion on no theft reported for sellers is irrelevant as SA doesn't have an online database of stolen serial numbers as you mentioned.
- any discussion on comparing with other sellers who don't fit the profile I gave is irrelevant
- any general auction process, legal talk, marketing language,T&C that are unrelated will be wasted. This is a very specific concern for the combination criteria I supplied. Please don't muddy the water.
- any discussion on bidorbuy's buyers protection is irrelevant since it doesn't look like it is covered for theft, looks to have a time limitations 7 days and other criteria/limitations. The point is theft won't get discovered because SA doesn't have an online database and that is why frauds can abuse your system
- any discussion is the price fair is irrelevant as items start at R100

The reason I'm being so anal is because I'm feeling you went a off topic by talking about big sellers, verified sellers, warehouse goods, bulk goods, non 2nd hand goods, non flash sale auctions. These type of auctions/ sales have nothing to do with my specific concern. I feel such irrelevant discussion is derailing this thread.
If you want to use this thread as a marketing exercise and not answer my specific concern then feel free to open another thread instead of muddying this one.

I don't mean to come across as aggressive in my post but it irks me when I have a feeling someone is trying to muddy the water or turning this into a general online auction debate.

I do appreciate your interaction in this thread as forums like mybb forums allow transparent discussion which other mediums don't lend to.
 
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DA-LION-619

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tbh those aren't what I'd call high spec also when you at what price they close at it seems fair.
 

skimread

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tbh those aren't what I'd call high spec also when you at what price they close at it seems fair.
The seller doesn't list the price but puts it up at R100. Buyers then increase it by R100 increments. The end price at the end of the 36 hours wins. So price isn't really a factor if the original intention was questionable by listing it for R100. Many of the items the market price is listed and you can see the price typically sold can vary greatly between 1/5th and a 1/2 of that market price.

It's high spec for 2nd hand goods. I went to 3 second hand stores the past week and the goods being sold are comparatively really unwanted crap. Just go to your nearest cash crusaders or 2nd hand store if you don't believe me.

Here is a list of items that one seller has sold recently
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/userprofile/RecentItemsSold.jsp?User_UserId=1655281

There are quite a few good spec items in the list
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/218647897/HP_ENVY_15_j063ei_Core_i7_4700MQ_16GB_RAM_1TB_HARD_DRIVE_FULL_HD_2GB_GRAPHICS_WINDOWS_8.html
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/218054694/_SUPERFAST_HP_ELITEBOOK_REVOLVE_810_CORE_i5_3437U_8GB_MEMORY_256GB_SSD_WIN_8_PRO.html
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/218051854/HP_ELITEBOOK_2570P_CORE_i7_3520M_2_9GHZ_CPU_8GB_MEMORY_500GB_HDD_DVDWRITER_WINDOWS_7.html



I'm not saying the seller is bad. I'm saying that specific combination of symptoms I mentioned before, any unverified seller could exploit to possible get rid of stolen 2nd hand laptops.
 
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