Why Rain 5G's upload speeds are slower than its download speeds

Mr Scratch

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So if using 4G for uploads, which affects latencies; one of the key marketing features of 5G is hogwash? Since it should be no different if you were on 4G besides the download speed?
 

Chris.Geerdts

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So if using 4G for uploads, which affects latencies; one of the key marketing features of 5G is hogwash? Since it should be no different if you were on 4G besides the download speed?
If you are talking about the sub-millisecond latency feature of 5G that is promoted, then it hasn't really kicked in with the non-stand-alone networks, and even when stand-alone networks are deployed, I don't see that in live deployments globally. The focus is on faster speeds.

One cornerstone of IMT-2020, of which 5G is a candidate technology, is URLL (ultra-reliable, low latency) communications specs, needed for certain emergency services and connected vehicles etc. I don't see that happening (certainly not widespread) for a few years still.
 

cavedog

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So if using 4G for uploads, which affects latencies; one of the key marketing features of 5G is hogwash? Since it should be no different if you were on 4G besides the download speed?

If you are close to the tower like line of sight then uploads tops out at ~70Mbps this is likely because of 5G TDD similar to 4G TDD you see fast downloads but slow uploads for example Rain 2600MHz and Telkom 2300MHz both TDD.

The further you go from the tower the upload speeds tank very fast so they are using 4G to help with uploads. The Balong 5000 chip in the Huawei H112 can aggregate both 5G and 4G into one connection which is very impressive.

Rain has started announcing the network ID 65573 on with 4G 2600MHz TDD. This is likely what they are using to aggregate for better upload speeds. 65573 is only connectable via the 5G simcard.

You will see if you do a manual network search on your phone you will see the 65573 network ID.
 

Swa

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This isn't going to work once they release a public product. People are naturally going to do big uploads on 5G which will just kill 4G. Indeed one of the touted uses of 5G is micro-servers and IOT where uploads are a big part.
 

Mr Scratch

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If you are close to the tower like line of sight then uploads tops out at ~70Mbps this is likely because of 5G TDD similar to 4G TDD you see fast downloads but slow uploads for example Rain 2600MHz and Telkom 2300MHz both TDD.

The further you go from the tower the upload speeds tank very fast so they are using 4G to help with uploads. The Balong 5000 chip in the Huawei H112 can aggregate both 5G and 4G into one connection which is very impressive.

Rain has started announcing the network ID 65573 on with 4G 2600MHz TDD. This is likely what they are using to aggregate for better upload speeds. 65573 is only connectable via the 5G simcard.

You will see if you do a manual network search on your phone you will see the 65573 network ID.

Sure, but using 4G to aggregate uploads is a band-aid solution, the problem is range to the tower or allowing people that are too far from the tower to connect to it... so in real world practice will companies opt to pay more to have high tower density and actually provide the benefit of symmetric 5G or will they opt to use non-standard networks as a permanent solution making it the norm?
 

quovadis

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This isn't going to work once they release a public product. People are naturally going to do big uploads on 5G which will just kill 4G. Indeed one of the touted uses of 5G is micro-servers and IOT where uploads are a big part.

The suggested 5G implementation is much higher density than what's currently practiced in SA which will cater for the bandwidth hungry.
 

cavedog

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Sure, but using 4G to aggregate uploads is a band-aid solution, the problem is range to the tower or allowing people that are too far from the tower to connect to it... so in real world practice will companies opt to pay more to have high tower density and actually provide the benefit of symmetric 5G or will they opt to use non-standard networks as a permanent solution making it the norm?

Well the biggest mistake people make is to assume that NSA 5G is slow or not a good solution.

The real issue is spectrum. If Rain had more spectrum in 4G and maybe more spectrum in 5G when they get aggregated speeds can be surprisingly good.

What is still going to happen in the future I guess we will just have to wait and see.
 

RandomGeek

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"5G 3,600MHz in TDD ". This will only work in densely-populated urban areas. So the moment you put your shiny new 5G device deep inside your house or far away from the base station you have a problem

3.6GHz suffers from higher signal attenuation than 2.6GHz.
2.6GHz suffers from higher signal attenuation than 2.1GHz.
2.1GHz suffers from higher signal attenuation than 900MHz.

This is due to physics, plain and simple.

Therefore the need for the "digital dividend" frequencies in the 700MHz range that we desperately need for proper coverage in SA
 

Swa

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The suggested 5G implementation is much higher density than what's currently practiced in SA which will cater for the bandwidth hungry.
Yes but when will that be? Certainly not before public launch. It also requires different spectrum. Somewhere something has got to give. More spectrum is needed for upload.
 

irBosOtter

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Most places in the world uses 4G for upload with their 5G deployments so I did not think this would be any different locally.

Called NSA version of 5G:

Used 5G for downloads and 4G for uploads....


The first version—and the one currently in use by all existing 5G networks—is referred to as non-standalone (or NSA). 5G NSA has some, but not all, of the capabilities of the full standalone (or SA) version of 5G. Having learned some hard lessons in previous network generation shifts, particularly with regard to how long the transitions took to fully complete, the telecom industry created the NSA version of 5G to serve as a transitional standard designed to smooth what could have been another hard shift from 4G to the full 5G SA standard.

In practical terms, this means that all the early implementations of 5G use a combination of 4G and 5G technology to function. Specifically, initial call and connection management for 5G devices is handled by the core 4G network and then switched over to 5G once the initial connection is made. In addition, all data uploads on early 5G phones actually use a 4G LTE connection—meaning upload speeds will be absolutely identical to what they would be with a 4G phone. But—and this is where it starts to get interesting—it does so with the latest and most advanced versions of 4G, which is sometimes called LTE Advanced. In other words, the deployment of 5G is actually encouraging the upgrading of 4G networks to their most advanced versions. LTE Advanced has been available for several years now and some carriers (notably AT&T in the US) are calling it 5Ge, or 5G Evolution, even though it is most definitely not an official 5G standard, but rather the latest iteration of 4G.
 
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RandomGeek

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Yes but when will that be? Certainly not before public launch. It also requires different spectrum. Somewhere something has got to give. More spectrum is needed for upload.
More spectrum indeed. And why don't we have it? ICASA and series of Ministers to thanks for that...
 

Swa

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More spectrum indeed. And why don't we have it? ICASA and series of Ministers to thanks for that...
Rain also has a substantial amount of spectrum at their disposal. Without the needed upload there's not going to be downloads to speak of so they might as well allocate some more to uploads.
 

quovadis

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Yes but when will that be? Certainly not before public launch. It also requires different spectrum. Somewhere something has got to give. More spectrum is needed for upload.

If you had to look up Vodacom & MTN's spectrum allocation you will find that they have quite generous allocations compared to international operators already pushing 5G services.
 

cavedog

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Rain also has a substantial amount of spectrum at their disposal. Without the needed upload there's not going to be downloads to speak of so they might as well allocate some more to uploads.

Well Rain could kill B38 on 4G for Rain Mobile (65538 and 65519) and then just use that spectrum for upload for their 5G with 4G network 65573. This would probably increase upload speeds. Currently the 5G tower broadcasts 4 network ID. 65538, 65519 for Rain fixed LTE and Rain Mobile. 65573 for 5G and 4G part of that and lastly Vodacoms network id.

I'm not at all surprised that upload is so poor considering how many people share that band on 1 tower.
 

Joseph matane

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If you are close to the tower like line of sight then uploads tops out at ~70Mbps this is likely because of 5G TDD similar to 4G TDD you see fast downloads but slow uploads for example Rain 2600MHz and Telkom 2300MHz both TDD.

The further you go from the tower the upload speeds tank very fast so they are using 4G to help with uploads. The Balong 5000 chip in the Huawei H112 can aggregate both 5G and 4G into one connection which is very impressive.

Rain has started announcing the network ID 65573 on with 4G 2600MHz TDD. This is likely what they are using to aggregate for better upload speeds. 65573 is only connectable via the 5G simcard.

You will see if you do a manual network search on your phone you will see the 65573 network ID.
As always you educate me more about telecommunications i appreciate your comments and you are not bais you give proper feedback you don't follow negative vibes
 

Nadiem26

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Why Rain 5G's upload speeds are slower than its download speeds

MyBroadband recently tested Rain’s 5G broadband product, ordering and activating the service before performing downloads and speed tests.

We saw average synthetic speed test results averaging 500Mbps and reaching up to 700Mbps. Download speeds on Steam reached speeds of 536Mbps.
I have big problems with rain the uncapped package is so slow I reach 35kb to 50 kb I cannot even stream netflix nor dstv during the rwc I had to buy data using telkom.The first month when I got my rain sim card it was great there after no speed nt even reaching 4g
 

Swa

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If you had to look up Vodacom & MTN's spectrum allocation you will find that they have quite generous allocations compared to international operators already pushing 5G services.
Indeed they do and it's a point I've brought up here. Their problem is in not managing it properly while the international operators are canning 2G or have canned it already or allocate practically zero spectrum to it.
 
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