Why The US Wants Civil Wars in Middle East

[NewsFlash]

Conspiracies? I don't see how? The evidence chain is quite clear.

In fact I make a slightly wrong assumption: I say it is the american government but in fact its not them, they are a big player but it is an organisation that stands above government (much as the mafia do.)

Evidence? Oh you mean the "Internet evidence" chain. Believe what you want!

 

[kilo39]

Try Google spell checker. It is happy with both. You got the drift did you not? So stop trying to be an intelectual ass and rather explain the difference if you want to contribute to society and upliftment of the English language unless you only want to be an elitists ass to gain bragging rights, if so then piss of and leave my self taught english spelling and grammar.

Thus in short explain!

I would like anybody to explain how Muslim Brotherhood, the Mafia, and the CIA are part of one and the same organisation. The evidence chain is quite clear.

 

[Xarog]

Try Google spell checker. It is happy with both. You got the drift did you not? So stop trying to be an intelectual ass and rather explain the difference if you want to contribute to society and upliftment of the English language unless you only want to be an elitists ass to gain bragging rights, if so then piss of and leave my self taught english spelling and grammar.

Thus in short explain!

Google does not have a spellchecker, it merely has a list of words which it "recognises" if any word it doesn't recognise is close to one of the words which is in the list, it suggests the alternative regardless of its accuracy.

Conspiracy's suggests there is something belonging to the conspiracy - e.g. "the conspiracy's believability".

Conspiracies is the plural of conspiracy. You never ever ever EVER use an apostrophe when you're merely pluralising a word.

 

[kilo39]

Evidence? Oh you mean the "Internet evidence" chain. Believe what you want!

Ah now all of a sudden it is "the internet evidence chain."

Shame.

 

[NewsFlash]

Google does not have a spellchecker, it merely has a list of words which it "recognises" if any word it doesn't recognise is close to one of the words which is in the list, it suggests the alternative regardless of its accuracy.

Conspiracy's suggests there is something belonging to the conspiracy - e.g. "the conspiracy's believability".

Conspiracies is the plural of conspiracy. You never ever ever EVER use an apostrophe when you're merely pluralising a word.

Thanks for a good clarification. Will try to remember. What is an "apostrophe"

 

[Xarog]

This is an apostrophe : '

 

[NewsFlash]

Ah now all of a sudden it is "the internet evidence chain."

Shame.

Where else is your "evidence" coming from. Do you have inside connections? Are you related to the CIA of America. My take is you selectively read information and gather "sources" that suits your agenda from the Internet, like many do on this forum, and pass it on as "evidence" or sources.

 

[NewsFlash]

This is an apostrophe : '

Thanks again!

 

[kilo39]

Where else is your "evidence" coming from. Do you have inside connections? Are you related to the CIA of America. My take is you selectively read information and gather "sources" that suits your agenda from the Internet, like many do on this forum, and pass it on as "evidence" or sources.

That is totally untrue NewsFlash. I do not need "inside connections" to read usa government documents or any of the originals of these: many/lots/most are on the web: except those the bush government is desperately trying to make re-secret and ensuring there are less leaks. And if you had spent any time around here you would know I am one person who always provides links (as I did in this discussed post.) The originals are all there you merely need look: and before you jump to conclusions they are legitimate documents by authoritative authors if not the original document itself.

You simply do not open your eyes or are too scared to admit how badly you've been had.

The long list of dead people is in your name.

 

[NewsFlash]

That is totally untrue NewsFlash. I........
You simply do not open your eyes or are too scared to admit how badly you've been had.

The long list of dead people is in your name.

What a Joker!
Dream on.

 

[kilo39]

What a Joker!
Dream on.

And so the great atrocities of the world continue. In your name. I have identified the dream and it be yours.

 

[Xarog]

If we look deeper/broader then other patterns become evident: for instance americas role in south & central america: horrific placement of dictators, mass exterminations of peoples, disappearances (Pinochat, a long list of others)... We could argue that these were in the days of the cold war but americas modis operandi doesn't change: they execute whatever is necessary to their greater plan (no morals, guilt, whatever.) A thought: and of course the tentacles of power spread like a vine: these are long histories of manipulating events, power games etc. In this world there are no laws only levers and keeping those levers as secret as possible while knowing everyone else's.

On what grounds do you claim that there are no laws? As far as I can tell, there are definate laws, even internationally - sure, some of them are ignored, but again some aren't.

And some wild speculation. I always remember a line from Breyten Breytenbach: for every (visible) power in the world there is an equal and opposite (invisible) power. For every power there is an equal and opposite anti-power and both are equally strong. (For every government there is an equal and opposite anti-government.) My point is: there are many forces moving in the world... as Rummy used to say: there are some facts we know we know, some facts we know we don't know and some we don't know we don't know (or similar.) I am obliquely pointing to such forces as the Mafia, the Muslim Brotherhood.

This seems wrong-headed. If for every force there is an equal and opposite force, then an overall state of paralysis would be the status quo, because nothing would be able to overcome its opposite and thus nothing would change. Clearly things change and so Breytenbach was wrong.

The Muslim Brotherhood has been active in the US since the 1960s. Its goals have included propagating Islam and creating havens for Muslims in the US, and integrating Muslims. A main strategy has been dawah or Islamic renewal and outreach-

Source?

it is fair to say that the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Islamic Brotherhood are intimately intertwined beasts, and when you get down to it: the cia is an equal partner.

You haven't proved your case. Just because the CIA was once in bed with Islamic fundamentalists does not mean that it is still in bed with Islamic Fundamentalists.

And while mentioning this let's go back a bit in history to the 2nd WW and americas collaboration with the mafia in the Italian, European campaign.

If you and I work together in building a car, does that mean that we work together in doing everything else, too?

My point? Here we have an organisation with its tentacles in every pie: jihadis in Afghanistan, the mafia; organisations that are anti-government. In fact we can't even say "anti-government" because that is not the stance. The mafia credo is, if the government can kill people in the name of law and order and sovereignty then they (the mafia) can also kill people too in protection of their families (food on the table, etc.)

Again, just because it was so at one point in time does not mean that has always been so or that it is still so.

Point: let's talk smoke and mirrors. An organisation that stands above governments (it has no sense of law and order only its own.) It views the world as an economic landscape: bringing governments to power, taking them down. It works with any organization including the Mafia, Muslim Brotherhood/Islamic Brotherhood to further aims consistent with its belief: economic dominance and security in an uncertain world.

Just because it operates by its own rules does not mean that it can merely ignore the other power structures out there.

 

[NewsFlash]

And so the great atrocities of the world continue. In your name. I have identified the dream and it be yours.

Ok. Kiddo!

 

[LoneGunman]

What luck for rulers that men do not think. -- Adolf Hitler

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that...
I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel.
We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
-- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about
the subject." -- Marcus Aurelius

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion.
Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they
consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move
against him, believing that he has the gods on his side."-- Aristotle

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and
denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
-- Hermann Goering, at the Nuremberg Trials

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and
hence, clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary" -- H.L. Mencken

“In solitary confinement before his color TV, the citizen is made a part
of all that is happening on a planetary scale and impressed with his
powerlessness to act on precisely that planetary scale. Closed in upon
himself, the citizen is not the yeoman structure that creates the content
of the Republic, but simply a photograph in a collage enormously
larger than himself.”
—W.I. Thompson, Evil and the World Order, 1975

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was
planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master
of all industry and all commerce ... and when you realise that the entire
system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful
men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and
depression originate." -- President James A. Garfield, just a few weeks
before he was assassinated on July 2nd, 1881.

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an
independent press. You know it and I know it.
There is not one of you who dare to write your honest opinions, and if you did,
you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for
keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of
you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be
so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street looking for another job.

If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours
my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie
outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and
his race for his daily bread.
You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press?
We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks,
they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the
property of other men.
We are intellectual prostitutes."
-John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech
before the New York Press Club

"Once a government resorts to terror against its own population to get what it wants,
it must keep using terror against its own population to get what it wants. A government
that terrorizes its own people can never stop. If such a government ever lets the fear
subside and rational thought return to the populace, that government is finished."
-- Michael Rivero

 

[LoneGunman]

Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.

The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb.

Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.

“As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished,” said one of the sources.

The plans, disclosed to The Sunday Times last week, have been prompted in part by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad’s assessment that Iran is on the verge of producing enough enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons within two years....
Sources close to the Pentagon said the United States was highly unlikely to give approval for tactical nuclear weapons to be used. One source said Israel would have to seek approval “after the event”, as it did when it crippled Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak with airstrikes in 1981.

Scientists have calculated that although contamination from the bunker-busters could be limited, tons of radioactive uranium compounds would be released.
(read full two page article at )
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

 

[Xarog]

If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours
my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie
outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and
his race for his daily bread.
You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press?
We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks,
they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the
property of other men.
We are intellectual prostitutes."
-John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech
before the New York Press Club

Don't agree with this quote. I will say that it applies to mainstream journalism, but these days there really is a viable (and honest) alternative if you know where to look.

 

[Alan]

Indeed - but the chances of a country like Iran using nukes (assuming they had them) is even less slim.

Likelihood of them using nukes indirectly(through their terrorist henchman) is far more likely. Just look at how many counrties are concerned about Iran getting nukes. I'm sure the Ayatollahs could care less if millions of infidels from the great satan are wiped off the earth in a flash.

To be honest, I don't really know. It doesn't make sense. To build nukes you need to have centrifuges which can refine the uranium to a certain point, and that's far far above the point that uranium needs to be refined if you're going to use it as an energy source. It's not practically possible to create weapons-grade uranium from such centrifuges.

It's more likely that the nuke stuff is just a cover, with the real reasons being making sure that Iran doesn't sell its oil for euros, and to remove them as a potential threat to Israel, seeing how Iran is still a regional power.

Are you an expert on nuke tech? If not then what do the experts say?

I have more of a problem with nations invading other nations than I have problems with the leadership of Iran. I would also point out that Iran was moving towards more progressive standards until Bush opened his fat yap in his axis of evil speech. Next thing you know, Ahamadinejad's won a surprise victory in the elections.

Secondly, all things considered, any invasion would be highly unlikely to bring about the change you suggest. If it isn't going to work, why should we support it?

I suppose you have to see Islamic fundamentalists armed with nukes as a threat before you can appreciate the viability of taking military action. The Ayatollahs are such tolerant people. They were just going to sit back and let Iran evolve into a country based on the ideals of the great satan.

I'm sure it would halt their attempts to build nukes.

No, a rogue nation by any standard of the term. A rogue nation is one that does not follow international law. If the US starts waging wars of aggression then it becomes a rogue nation, by definition.

Who decides what is "international law" and who are these people to decide what the U.S can and can't do to protect themselves. So the U.S can't be aggresive with their enemies? Passivism worked so well in the 30's so lets try it again

No different than the Israelis there. And more to the point, Hezbollah was accused of using civilians as shields indirectly by holding out in houses and the like - it's not like they were kidnapping civilians and forcing them to stand infront of their fighters.

*sigh*

Do we really have to go through all this again. If I remember there are threads about this on the forum.

Funny. North Korea actively claims to have a nuclear weapon. Clearly they're a far greater threat to security and freedom. Why is the US half-heartedly engaging in diplomatic dialogue and trying to ignore the problem instead of drumming up support for an invasion?

So no, they don't do it for the greater good. They do it because it serves their position as the sole superpower. And you're still ignoring the countless examples where the US has helped to install the most brutal of dictators when they were US friendly.

They are a threat but certainly no way near as bad as Iran. Is Kim a fundamentalist who sees the west as infidels, does he believe in martyrdom, does he have links to Islamic terorrists and want to wipe a fellow nation off the planet. All Kim Jong il cares about is his personal power and he isn't gonna risk it. He's not an ideologue like the Ayatollahs. So no paradise for him and hence no pioint in becoming a martyr.

Did I not say it was all part of the cold war. Communist or nationalist? Gee I wonder who the U.S would back. Unfortunatly that's the "real world" for you.

Last I checked the Cold War was over. Yet it's still business as usual in Washington - care to explain that one?

Well we are in the 4th world war if you think about it. So yeah business as usual.

Only in the way Saddam 'defended' himself from his political opponents.

Talk about apples and oranges

 

[kilo39]

On what grounds do you claim that there are no laws? As far as I can tell, there are definate laws, even internationally - sure, some of them are ignored, but again some aren't.

Please. Does the CIA follow laws? Does the mafia follow laws? In the extreme they create the laws, witness the South American regimes: put in place by the american government.

This seems wrong-headed. If for every force there is an equal and opposite force, then an overall state of paralysis would be the status quo, because nothing would be able to overcome its opposite and thus nothing would change. Clearly things change and so Breytenbach was wrong.

No, there is no status-quo. They would like there to be: but WE are still here and growing more vocal by the day. "They" hate the internet and its "opinion." Because we have no interest in telling lies.

IIit is fair to say that the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Islamic Brotherhood are intimately intertwined beasts, and when you get down to it: the cia is an equal partner.

Source?

Devil's Game
Muslim Brotherhood/Islamic Brotherhood

You haven't proved your case. Just because the CIA was once in bed with Islamic fundamentalists does not mean that it is still in bed with Islamic Fundamentalists.

Do you really think these connections established over years "simply dry up?" NOT

If you and I work together in building a car, does that mean that we work together in doing everything else, too?

Ah but the car is a primary source of 'trouble' is it not? What industries rely on the car? Who are your buddies?

Again, just because it was so at one point in time does not mean that has always been so or that it is still so.

Comment above.

Just because it operates by its own rules does not mean that it can merely ignore the other power structures out there.

It is above these power structures. In many cases "it" creates them.

 

[d0b33]

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that...
I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel.
We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
-- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

Where was this btw?
If the article of a plan to attack Iran and the quote above are true... scary

A theory on Sharon's stroke
http://www.rense.com/general69/stroke.htm

 

[NewsFlash]

Please.
No, there is no status-quo. They would like there to be: but WE are still here and growing more vocal by the day. "They" hate the internet and its "opinion." Because we have no interest in telling lies.



Devil's Game
Muslim Brotherhood/Islamic Brotherhood

Do you really think these connections established over years "simply dry up?" NOT

OMW what comprehensive sources. All from the Wiki, may as well use the CIA charter!