Why voting for Ramaphosa is about reality – not ideology (OPINION - Melanie Verwoerd)

NarrowBandFtw

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I understand Ms Verwoerd's argument thus
Her whole argument depends on one believing CR is the best man for the job and one also believing that if he gets a clear mandate he actually will do the job.

Hence it falls flat on two accounts before you even factor in the ANC that he represents being rotten to the core.
 

newby_investor

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Her whole argument depends on one believing CR is the best man for the job and one also believing that if he gets a clear mandate he actually will do the job.

Hence it falls flat on two accounts before you even factor in the ANC that he represents being rotten to the core.
Yes, you're right, if you agree with her on those points. If you admit that then the rest of the logic is fairly sound.

I'm not an ANC supporter as you may have gathered, but I have a lot of respect for Ramaphosa. I think that if he gets the mandate he would do the job, though the job he has in mind and the one I'd prefer he do, as our politics aren't quite the same.

That being said - I can't think anyone else who realistically has a shot at getting into the office actually doing a better job as president.
 

RedViking

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I understand Ms Verwoerd's argument thus:
  1. Ramaphosa is the best possible leader to move South Africa forward.
  2. He can't clean all the Zuma people out immediately without destabilising government.
  3. His win in their recent leadership conference was quite marginal.
  4. He needs a "clear mandate" from voters in the form of a decent majority in the upcoming elections to consolidate his position and put him in a better position to clear out the remaining Zupta stooges.
  5. A poor election performance in 2019 would make it very difficult for Ramaphosa to clean up shop, a coalition government would basically be crippled and not able to get anything done.
Her logic makes sense. I don't necessarily agree. As was mentioned here before, we don't vote for the president directly but the party, so a vote for the ANC is also a vote for Ace, Supra and DD (not to mention Bathabile, Malusi and others). I may be convinced to vote for Ramaphosa strategically (though I'd probably prefer a leader like Lekgota or Holomisa) if I could, but I could never endorse the ANC.

Interpret the following pictures:

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BBSA

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Yes, you're right, if you agree with her on those points. If you admit that then the rest of the logic is fairly sound.

I'm not an ANC supporter as you may have gathered, but I have a lot of respect for Ramaphosa. I think that if he gets the mandate he would do the job, though the job he has in mind and the one I'd prefer he do, as our politics aren't quite the same.

That being said - I can't think anyone else who realistically has a shot at getting into the office actually doing a better job as president.

Ramaphosa is mandated to implement EWC, that is enough to withdraw any support for him.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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The vf+ want self determination of all communities "in particular the Afrikaners" and the "maintenance,protection and promotion of their rights and interests"

Sounds familiar.....:unsure::unsure:
I'll grant you the "in particular Afrikaners" bit is something that scare people and probably needs elaboration / removal. Then again, the ANC looks after their own in particular, as does the EFF and the DA.

VF+ is one of the few saying it wants something good for "all communities". And the only one speaking of self-determination.
 

Frequent visitor

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The problem is we are faced with a situation of who is the "best of the rest"?.

I have a lot of respect for people like Gordhan, Rhamahosa. But will I vote for the ANC? No - make that a hell no. While I respect certain individuals, I do not agree with the their vision.

DA - would have been the closest a few years back, but they caved to pressure and populist politics. Still some good people left, but ...

FF+ - a party needs to include all races. Yet - respect.



COPE - I believe they are too naive. They have my respect.

IFP - They are seen as teh "Zulu" party. But they have their moments. Respect.

EFF - The "do you have rocks in your head?" party. I love South Africa and it's people too much. Yes sometimes even you @EADC when you're thinking straight - like in this thread so far ;)

The others are fringe. So who to vote for? Any decision personally would be strategic in opposition, not because I necessary agree with the party I vote for. I believe this is the same dilemma many South Africans face.
Stand yourself?
 

Vrotappel

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FF+ Nationally - I want them to have more seats in parliament
DA Locally
 

Zoomzoom

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I guess but dont like this idea that for South Africa to be stable we need th ANC in power this is propoganda at its best.

I can see how you would think that, but it might also be the truth for the immediate future. EFF / BLF will incite a race war in 5 minutes if they had the power. IFP in power wouldn't work either because of tribal tensions. VF+ would never be accepted it would be like apartheid 2.0 in many people's minds. COPE / AGANG/ ACDP / all the other little parties don't have a plan or leadership or anything. DA sadly would be able to run things but dear god if you think we pay through our noses now, just give them free reign to jack up the electricity, taxes, water, and every other tariff they can think of to screw you to the wall! And then there would riots in the streets as well. (See COCT for examples).

We need someone with a proper plan that benefits all the citizens of SA without emptying their pockets (legally or otherwise). And that is going to take time (if anyone ever does step up to the plate). Meantime I suspect the ANC is our best chance of not having civil bloody war.
 

surface

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you clearly have a great fondness for paying for through your nose for everything.

Some people vote only for parties that have genetically superior IQ and highly skilled leaders.. these god chosen leaders happen to be in FF+ and DA.
 

EADC

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I can see how you would think that, but it might also be the truth for the immediate future. EFF / BLF will incite a race war in 5 minutes if they had the power. IFP in power wouldn't work either because of tribal tensions. VF+ would never be accepted it would be like apartheid 2.0 in many people's minds. COPE / AGANG/ ACDP / all the other little parties don't have a plan or leadership or anything. DA sadly would be able to run things but dear god if you think we pay through our noses now, just give them free reign to jack up the electricity, taxes, water, and every other tariff they can think of to screw you to the wall! And then there would riots in the streets as well. (See COCT for examples).

We need someone with a proper plan that benefits all the citizens of SA without emptying their pockets (legally or otherwise). And that is going to take time (if anyone ever does step up to the plate). Meantime I suspect the ANC is our best chance of not having civil bloody war.

Honestly no I will not buy that trash that is exactly the propoganda the ANC wants you to believe that they are the only ones who can do it. Then we might aswell just bend over and get ****ed all day long.

We managed a transition once we can do it again and this is the fundimental issue why South Africa has eccentially onle two parties because once they in we gobble up the idea no one else can do it I call bullshit.

So ANC must keep power because of potentially a civil war? We have always potentially had civil wars but we keep on going.

So no I will not accept the ANC needs to be in power for a stable South Africa.
 

Zoomzoom

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Honestly no I will not buy that trash that is exactly the propoganda the ANC wants you to believe that they are the only ones who can do it. Then we might aswell just bend over and get ****ed all day long.

We managed a transition once we can do it again and this is the fundimental issue why South Africa has eccentially onle two parties because once they in we gobble up the idea no one else can do it I call bullshit.

So ANC must keep power because of potentially a civil war? We have always potentially had civil wars but we keep on going.

So no I will not accept the ANC needs to be in power for a stable South Africa.

You missed the bit where I said FOR THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE! Of course other people can do it, but is there that someone in the room RIGHT NOW? I don't think so.
 

Zoomzoom

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DA has shown us that they can run municipalities. Just look at the billions wasted by the ANC in CoJ and Tshwane.

Run the municipality for their own profit yes. And just because they aren't scamming the money doesn't mean it isn't disappearing into their pockets just as nicely. A development project here, a water meter installation fee there, and bob's your uncle your friends, family and cronies are all rich on ratepayers money. There are illegal ways of enriching yourself and then there are the clever not so obvious ways.
 

EADC

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You missed the bit where I said FOR THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE! Of course other people can do it, but is there that someone in the room RIGHT NOW? I don't think so.

Whats the immediate future? 2019 another 5 years? 2024 rolls around then for that immediate future and so on so forth.

I will not accept that thinking. What is the point of voting then? what is the point of a multi party system?

We might aswell be a communist nation then **** it give power to the ANC indefinately.
 

EADC

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Run the municipality for their own profit yes. And just because they aren't scamming the money doesn't mean it isn't disappearing into their pockets just as nicely. A development project here, a water meter installation fee there, and bob's your uncle your friends, family and cronies are all rich on ratepayers money. There are illegal ways of enriching yourself and then there are the clever not so obvious ways.

Welcome to South Africa this is how its been done for the past 100 years.
 
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