Why you don't really have free will

rietrot

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This whole argument is still so stupid and ironic.

Bunch of atheist with a mid-evil superstitious believe that they are fated.
 

Moosedrool

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Lol. No a computer can't do that on its own. A computer is a calculator. It can only select the information that people told it to select.
Who is your puppet master/operator, if your mind is like a computer?
Yes we do program computers and yes we do lay down the perimeters for AI to observe and fill it's own data set which it can use to make decision based on math. The thing is if I put it aside, it's a simple mechanical machine but if I programmed AI and allow it to repair itself It might evolve into a mechanism which you won't be able to prove whether it's alive or not.

Only because the machines we built up until now requires a human to operate doesn't mean mechanical or organic things do. The main concept behind life was initially the ability to duplicate itself. Nothing more. Millions of years of evolution generated intelligent life. We're not capable of building a machine as complex as the human brain and thus give it all those years to learn. So it requires an operator for now.
 

Bobbin

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Yes we do program computers and yes we do lay down the perimeters for AI to observe and fill it's own data set which it can use to make decision based on math. The thing is if I put it aside, it's a simple mechanical machine but if I programmed AI and allow it to repair itself It might evolve into a mechanism which you won't be able to prove whether it's alive or not.

Only because the machines we built up until now requires a human to operate doesn't mean mechanical or organic things do. The main concept behind life was initially the ability to duplicate itself. Nothing more. Millions of years of evolution generated intelligent life. We're not capable of building a machine as complex as the human brain and thus give it all those years to learn. So it requires an operator for now.
It just requires a need, then it will operate on its own :p

Yeah yeah I know that's simplifying it but in principle is what I'm saying.
 

rietrot

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Yes we do program computers and yes we do lay down the perimeters for AI to observe and fill it's own data set which it can use to make decision based on math. The thing is if I put it aside, it's a simple mechanical machine but if I programmed AI and allow it to repair itself It might evolve into a mechanism which you won't be able to prove whether it's alive or not.

Only because the machines we built up until now requires a human to operate doesn't mean mechanical or organic things do. The main concept behind life was initially the ability to duplicate itself. Nothing more. Millions of years of evolution generated intelligent life. We're not capable of building a machine as complex as the human brain and thus give it all those years to learn. So it requires an operator for now.
Ya the day you built your hypothetical computer that opperates without a opperator I'll have no problem with acknowledging that it has freewill. Until that day, computers don't have free will and if you want to argue that you don't you need to tell us who is pulling your strings.
 

Bobbin

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This whole argument is still so stupid and ironic.

Bunch of atheist with a mid-evil superstitious believe that they are fated.
Calling my limitation of understanding as superstitious is... well... nasty and hurtful :p
 

Moosedrool

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Ya the day you built your hypothetical computer that opperates without a opperator I'll have no problem with acknowledging that it has freewill. Until that day, computers don't have free will and if you want to argue that you don't you need to tell us who is pulling your strings.
Basically saying there is a God until you can replace our definition him. lol
 

Prawnapple

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Ya the day you built your hypothetical computer that opperates without a opperator I'll have no problem with acknowledging that it has freewill. Until that day, computers don't have free will and if you want to argue that you don't you need to tell us who is pulling your strings.
Interesting, what is your argument, proof or evidence that the brain is nothing more than a complicated computer?

Basically saying there is a God until you can replace our definition him. lol
God of the gaps. It's a darn thing and it sucks that people always fall for it.

This whole argument is still so stupid and ironic.

Bunch of atheist with a mid-evil superstitious believe that they are fated.
How can you talk about fate when the future is uncertain / hasn't happened yet?
 

rietrot

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Calling my limitation of understanding as superstitious is... well... nasty and hurtful :p
Limitations of understanding. Ie. Saying you don't know something is different to having a mid-evil superstitious believe a wrong understanding.
 

Ninja'd

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Free will is a myth. Religion is a joke. We are all pawns of something even greater.

Memes, the DNA of the soul .
 

rietrot

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Basically saying there is a God until you can replace our definition him. lol
I didn't bring a god into this. You can say free will is simply a result of evolution. No god needed and it wouldn't be any more of a leap than anything else in evolution.
 

Bobbin

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Limitations of understanding. Ie. Saying you don't know something is different to having a mid-evil superstitious believe a wrong understanding.
Well when you say "Making a decision" = Free will - I actually don't necessarily see the connection (heh... connection... what an apt word).

I wonder if you and I have the same idea of what free will is supposed to mean?

Anyway here I am stressing my brain once again in trying to understand where free will actually is supposed to work in the series of decision making. Why do I do this to myself!! :p
 

saturnz

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Both an illusion and possess what we define as being intelligence.

the philosophy of science is based on rationality though, its an axiom, and now you want to call it an illusion?

that there is an objective reality shared by all rational observers."The basis for rationality is acceptance [of an external objective reality." "Objective reality is clearly an essential thing if we are to develop a meaningful perspective of the world. Nevertheless its very existence is assumed." "Our belief that objective reality exist is an assumption that it arises from a real world outside of ourselves. Without this assumption, there would be only the thoughts and images in our own mind (which would be the only existing mind) and there would be no need of science, or anything else.
 

rietrot

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Well when you say "Making a decision" = Free will - I actually don't necessarily see the connection (heh... connection... what an apt word).

I wonder if you and I have the same idea of what free will is supposed to mean?

Anyway here I am stressing my brain once again in trying to understand where free will actually is supposed to work in the series of decision making. Why do I do this to myself!! :p
Ja, no sorry I can't help you.
 
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