Why you don't really have free will

Ponderer

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Then **** off out of the debate? I mean seriously, if you're not open to having a discussion then what are you doing here? If your position is seriously that debating something is moronic (because duh! it must be true!) then **** me, you're exactly the same person you were when you started your first thread here many moons ago: Totally unwilling to even consider discussion.
Do you agree that in a game of pool, the players clearly and undeniable choose which shot to play, and how to play it?
Do you agree that in a game of pool, the players clearly and undeniably have/use/exercise free will?
 

Splinter

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It's what you used (caused you) to respond to the post.
You chose (exercised free will) to respond to the post.
Get it?
You've told me what I used. I'm not sure it caused me to though.

However, you haven't defined it. For some reason, you keep on avoiding the question.
 

Splinter

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how dumb can you be, have you bothered clicking on the quote?
Oh I see, you just copied my original post and edited it. I'm guessing your cohorts didn't realise that either :)

Typical saturnz sneakiness...
 

Bobbin

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Then **** off out of the debate? I mean seriously, if you're not open to having a discussion then what are you doing here? If your position is seriously that debating something is moronic (because duh! it must be true!) then **** me, you're exactly the same person you were when you started your first thread here many moons ago: Totally unwilling to even consider discussion.
He may have a point though...

Arguing against the will to argue does sound kinda silly.
 

Bobbin

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Maybe free will is independent from free action. Maybe the will is where the secret sauce lies. The action is deterministic but is according to the will. You don't choose your actions but you do... somehow... choose the will that determines your actions.

This is where, I believe, modern compatibilism rests.

Still haven't quite solved it though :p I'm still playing with that random pool table lol
 
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saturnz

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Oh I see, you just copied my original post and edited it. I'm guessing your cohorts didn't realise that either :)

Typical saturnz sneakiness...
if you say so

tell me again how I was saying the philosophy of science is a science
 

Splinter

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so are you denying you said what you said
Oh dude, I'm not jumping on one of these mindless merry go-rounds with you today :) Got work to do. Besides, I know you still butt-hurt with that "science of philosophy" thing, and exactly where you are going to try and take this to.

tell @Ponderer us clever atheists can predict things :)
 

Ponderer

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Maybe free will is independent from free action. Maybe the will is where the secret sauce lies. The action is deterministic but is according to the will. You don't choose your actions but you do... somehow... choose the will that determines your actions.

This is where, I believe, modern compatibilism rests.

Still haven't quite solved it though :p I'm still playing with that random pool table lol
Free will is not independent from free action - free will is limited by free action.
 

Ponderer

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Oh dude, I'm not jumping on one of these mindless merry go-rounds with you today :) Got work to do. Besides, I know you still butt-hurt with that "science of philosophy" thing, and exactly where you are going to try and take this to.

tell @Ponderer us clever atheists can predict things :)
True - you have multiple times shown just how "clever" "us atheists" be.
:ROFL:
 

Prawnapple

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If random was depicted on a pool table, the balls would pass right through each other, the cue ball wouldn't even respond to being hit, everything would move independently in shocking ways with seemingly no cause, heck the pool table might as well not even be there, there'd be no rules at all, the balls might already be on the other side of the universe by now, how would they even hold their shape, maybe they're crocodiles now?

If something were truly random I wonder if it'd even be observable, because an observation requires it to have an influence/effect that brings it into the causality realm - it has rules now.

k... there goes my brain again.
Is that really the case for randomness? Why would the balls pass through each other and not obey the laws of physics?

independently in shocking ways with seemingly no cause
Key word here I think is seemingly

If something were truly random I wonder if it'd even be observable
Probably not, that's why I don't believe there is such a thing as "true random". Perhaps somebody can demonstrate "true randomness" to us?
 
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