Why you don't really have free will

Swa

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You're right in that this is a slightly separate argument, though it does tie in, in certain ways. To further re-iterate, if it's true that god grants free will, then both the person being raped and the rapist has free will. Why should the person being raped lose their free will in the process of being raped, but the rapist who wants to "freely" do the raping, is allowed all of or most of the free will? Sound kind of silly to me, and that's an understatement.
Nobody is losing theirs. Only you not understanding what free is and what it entails. There's a saying from people in prison, you can take away my freedom but not my will.
 

Prawnapple

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If there is no free will , what is the purpose of perceived free will or perceived free thought?
Not sure, but I'm sure it'd be some evolutionary advantage / disadvantage.

Is it all just an illusion ?
Certainly. Though others would disagree.

And how would humans evolve psychologically/philosophically If we all accepted there was no free will .
That's a good question, many great minds are thinking about this. We need more people on this, pronto!

Would it dramatically change us ?
Not sure.

You might enjoy this:
 

saor

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Posting here because it touches on some of the stuff that's come up in this thread. Fun conversation. Starts at 04:30.

 

Bobbin

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If there is no free will , what is the purpose of perceived free will or perceived free thought?

Is it all just an illusion ?

And how would humans evolve psychologically/philosophically If we all accepted there was no free will .

Would it dramatically change us ?
If there's truly no such thing as free will, then I think the illusion thereof might just be a side effect of self-awareness which itself might be a consequence of social development (social hierarchy/relationship) and intelligence.

Complete speculation on my part though.

But even if we accept there's no free will, that wouldn't change our instincts. We can't help being what we are if that were the case.
 

Ponderer

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If there's truly no such thing as free will, then I think the illusion thereof might just be a side effect of self-awareness which itself might be a consequence of social development (social hierarchy/relationship) and intelligence.

Complete speculation on my part though.

But even if we accept there's no free will, that wouldn't change our instincts. We can't help being what we are if that were the case.
Is it a fact or a belief that free will does not exist.
 

saturnz

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Is it a fact or a belief that free will does not exist.
If it's a fact then it's not a belief and if it's a belief then it's not a fact. What if it's a belief and a fact at the same time.

I'm not sure which one I'm just a layman speculating and trying to learn new things.
 

Prawnapple

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what constitutes evidence in your view?
FOR free will? Well, it all depends on your definition of free will. My favourite and the most widely used definition by philosophers and philosophy scholars is, "the ability to could have done otherwise". I don't believe in this. There no evidence to say that, 1) were you given the second opportunity, or 2) were every atom in the universe in the same place it was when you first made the decision, you would not have been able to decide other than the way you did. This is of course thanks to determinism. As I've pointed out before though, even if the universe is indeterminate (acasual), you don't get to have free will as you'd have no way of being able to show whether the event was acausal or casual.

So lets say, you went back and had the opportunity to make the decision again. Instead, this time you did indeed make a different decision to the one you had originally made (how? I don't know) (I don't believe this is possible, as there is no evidence for this). Though, even if you COULD and DID make a different decision, how would you know if this was an acausal or causal event? PS: The answer may shock you.
 

saturnz

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FOR free will? Well, it all depends on your definition of free will. My favourite and the most widely used definition by philosophers and philosophy scholars is, "the ability to could have done otherwise". I don't believe in this. There no evidence to say that, 1) were you given the second opportunity, or 2) were every atom in the universe in the same place it was when you first made the decision, you would not have been able to decide other than the way you did. This is of course thanks to determinism. As I've pointed out before though, even if the universe is indeterminate (acasual), you don't get to have free will as you'd have no way of being able to show whether the event was acausal or casual.

So lets say, you went back and had the opportunity to make the decision again. Instead, this time you did indeed make a different decision to the one you had originally made (how? I don't know) (I don't believe this is possible, as there is no evidence for this). Though, even if you COULD and DID make a different decision, how would you know if this was an acausal or causal event? PS: The answer may shock you.
okay then...
 

rambo919

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Funny thing is poeple in this very thread continually exercise their free will by choosing to believe free will does not exist..... other choose to believe it exists.... out of their free will.

If free will does not exist then something pre-detremaines who believes in it or not and no one could possibly change their minds about this matter..... making this thread useless.
 
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