Why you don't really have free will

saturnz

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belief is the acceptance of something to be true, without requiring proof

proof is evidence OR an argument which establishes the truth of a statement
 

Ponderer

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Why don't you concentrate on the issue rather than semantics? Say that not "believing" in a god is a belief, then what? Does it make you right or wrong, or why should you care what I think?

I don't give the idea if there is a god or not much thought. I find the whole concept rather ridiculous to be honest. For there to be one, you have to believe, that much is clear because there is no other way to accept it.

But to not believe, I'd have to accept the concept, which I don't, so what is there not to believe in?

Do I really need to trot out the same old tropes over and over? How many times do you have to go over this? How many examples and explanations from people do you need? Sure people can be clumsy with words, "I don't believe in god", but I'm not sure why you somehow need atheism to be a belief to validate your own choice. Are you so insecure?

Enjoy your fantasy and your whispers to the sky, why do you care what anyone else thinks? Unless of course you are not that sure? And to be fair, I don't know why you would be when there is nothing tangible outside your head to suggest that there actually is a god.
You are the one that is trying to divert from the issue by trying to dismiss it is mere semantics.

Like I said - indulge me.
Just answer the simple/straightforward question.
How is a negative belief not a belief?
If a negative belief is not a belief, what is it then?
 

Spizz

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You are the one that is trying to divert from the issue by trying to dismiss it is mere semantics.

Like I said - indulge me.
Just answer the simple/straightforward question.
How is a negative belief not a belief?
If a negative belief is not a belief, what is it then?
Nonsense, the way you are trying to use it.

Definition of belief

1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
her belief in God
a belief in democracy
I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique.
contrary to popular belief

2: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed
an individual's religious or political beliefs
especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
the beliefs of the Catholic Church

3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
belief in the validity of scientific statements
As explained over and over, an absence of belief, is not a belief.

What don't you understand? It's really quite simple, so you should get this.
 

Ponderer

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Nonsense, the way you are trying to use it.



As explained over and over, an absence of belief, is not a belief.

What don't you understand? It's really quite simple, so you should get this.
A positive belief is (the belief) that something is true.
A negative belief is (the belief) that something is false.

A "non-belief" or "absence of belief" is quite simply a negative belief.
To argue differently is absurd.
 

Scary_Turtle

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Nonsense, the way you are trying to use it.

As explained over and over, an absence of belief, is not a belief.

What don't you understand? It's really quite simple, so you should get this.
There really isn't a point of arguing with his brand of stupid, he uses that argument to derail threads and just troll.
 

Prawnapple

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A positive belief is (the belief) that something is true.
A negative belief is (the belief) that something is false.


A "non-belief" or "absence of belief" is quite simply a negative belief.
To argue differently is absurd.
You'll need to cite your sources for those claims.
 

saor

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What don't you understand? It's really quite simple, so you should get this.
Why bother engaging him then?
He just trawls these threads with the same **** over and over.
Fking hell these Ponderer loops are getting tiresome.
 

Spizz

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Why bother engaging him then?
He just trawls these threads with the same **** over and over.
Fking hell these Ponderer loops are getting tiresome.
I need a little reminder every couple of months. That’s me done again until March.
 

Techne

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That would surely make an argument for hard determinism invalid. It does not follow.

If by thinking you mean choice, it's not applicable. The form of thinking in hard determinism would be more akin to path of least resistance perhaps.

It also implies you're not thinking either, in the free sort of sense. So you also can't prove to me that you are. :)

To explore hard determinism you gotta dive right in. Can't half arse it lol. It's why criticisms of it generally fall flat.
By thinking I mean your thoughts being about something else or pointing towards something else. Essentially intentionality is true. If intentionality is true, materialism is false and refutes your metaphysics. So either you are thinking and your metaphysics is BS or you are not thinking... in which case.... prove to me anything using reason.
 

Swa

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You are :rolleyes:, they aren't misrepresentations :rolleyes: look at the history of the bible something not taught in church or what is written in it (try educate yourself), I have many beliefs (like a belief that there is freewill) but not believing in something is not a belief :rolleyes:.

Have you ever though that at one time in my life I may have had similar beliefs to you?

I face what I believe in every day and don't have a "I can do bad and ask for forgiveness" or because God I can be an ass. I have to take responsibility for my own actions and you don't so maybe you should "Face up to what it is you believe" and you will be a better/free person.
For the umpteenth time I don't care about your views on the bible. It's you trying to redefine what a belief means in order to not fess up to yours. It's the classic atheist copout of having a "non-belief". You don't have a non-belief. Your head isn't empty so give yourself more credit than that.

And lol at your assumption of not having to take responsibility for my actions. Sounds like the classic atheist high horse to me.
 

Swa

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Nonsense, the way you are trying to use it.



As explained over and over, an absence of belief, is not a belief.

What don't you understand? It's really quite simple, so you should get this.
You DO NOT have an absence of belief. I don't know how many times this has to be said before you get it.

Why bother engaging him then?
He just trawls these threads with the same **** over and over.
Fking hell these Ponderer loops are getting tiresome.
I'm the one who brought it up. And it is perfectly valid. It's only atheists that try and paint a negative believe as a non-belief. Do you know how stupid that sounds to people that know better?

I don't believe there were any clouds this morning. That's a negative belief. I'm not having no beliefs about clouds which would be a non-belief.
 

saor

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You DO NOT have an absence of belief. I don't know how many times this has to be said before you get it.


I'm the one who brought it up. And it is perfectly valid. It's only atheists that try and paint a negative believe as a non-belief. Do you know how stupid that sounds to people that know better?

I don't believe there were any clouds this morning. That's a negative belief. I'm not having no beliefs about clouds which would be a non-belief.
Cool, but maybe start a new thread, make the assertion and let's debate it in one place rather than this same thing in so many threads.
 

Swa

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Cool, but maybe start a new thread, make the assertion and let's debate it rather than this same thing in so many threads.
Why do people have to keep claiming in so many threads that their beliefs are non-beliefs?
 

Spizz

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You DO NOT have an absence of belief. I don't know how many times this has to be said before you get it.
It’s amazing the lengths you guys will go to to have your superstitions validated. It’s like you have to have atheists recognise your beliefs are legitimate so you can be on the same page as an equal. Not that we are not equals of course, but by not accepting your superstitions and quite frankly finding it all a bit ridiculous, it clearly irks that we don’t take you serious.

But I really don’t know why you’re not happy and content with your “choice” of worshiping your god and ignoring the rest of us while we get on with real life. I’m happy and I want you to be too. So sure. Belief, non belief, whatever makes you happy is good for me. Life’s just too short to argue semantics.
 
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