Will Communism Return?

jack_spratt

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#1
I saw this interesting tweet from Stefan Molyneux:

The Nazis were defeated over 70 years ago.
The Allies won the world war.
The Communists won the culture war.
Imaginary Nazis are a distraction from real Communists.
Keep your eye on the hammer and sickle. It’s coming.

Link

Truth or rubbish?
 

Techne

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#4
Meritocracy is gone. People no longer believe in that. That is just as bad as communism. Try living a life with Social Justice infrastructure and technology. Diverse, inclusive and equal... equally sht for everybody.
 

Polymathic

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#6
Well to be fair to Communism there has never been a truly communist nation ever. But then again that maybe due to the fact that in reality Communism could never be implemented. Communist thought is just fantasy
 

Norrad

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#7
The world is changing and socialism is taking over. That's pretty evident in the most progressive countries. But full communism just doesn't work, as people always want what others have. Eventually China's social credit system might make it to other countries and then if it is implemented well the full communist idea might take proper root.

So I wouldn't say it will never happen, just depends on what **** goes down in the next decade or two.
 

Bobbin

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#9
It's impossible for me to take anything Stefan Molyneux says seriously. He's a complete tard. His ideas on "life, the universe and everything" was ripped to shreds by a much smaller YouTuber called Rationality Rules.
The only challenge RR ever made to Stefan, as far as I'm aware, is regarding UPB. And if we're keeping score, Stefan was the last to respond and has held his position pretty well as far as I can tell. Where was he ripped to shreds, link?
 

Bobbin

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#10
I haven't watched the vid in the OP yet, but I think it's a little more complicated than "communism making a comeback".

There's many coercive collectivist proponents battling for supremacy and power right now. They're constantly changing sides and hopping over walls as per agenda suitability including globalism, feminism, nationalism and religion.

The one ideology, individualism (The true right wing IMO), has completely lost its meaning and identity. Independence and sovereignty of the individual has lost its voice, perhaps due to the conflation and false dichotomies created by the battling and growing collectivist ideologies above. i.e. You can't voice your opinion without being called a supremacist by some other collective proponent.

The complication is that you can technically ascribe to many ideologies as either a left or right wing persona in the sense of coercion or freedom of association respectively. For example there's nothing morally wrong with anyone wanting homogeneity or independence in any form for any race or culture, unless you go full ball nationalist and practice genocide. What distinguishes you is whether you coerce others. Morality and politics are intertwined and right now it seems the world is descending into moral chaos.

Basically it seems people in general do not understand the meaning of coercion and the distinction between active vs. passive action. All the active aggressors are being allowed free reign in society and they garner mass support I assume somehow owing to our tribal/social/selfish nature. These days it seems increasingly that an individualist may not retaliate or even defend if his rights are violated.

I find that one form of communism is the epitome of state coercion, so it seems we're headed in that direction with the increasing state coercion we're observing. But I think there's a chance that this tends to naturally activate the silent populace of individualists and yet another bloody war for independence against the coercive threat, as a sort of natural political cycle. This cycle is however being affected/delayed/complicated by all the modern collective powers battling amongst one another. This is a political war on many ill defined fronts and uncertain allies/enemies.

My limited understanding of Stefan Molyneux is that he is an individualist at heart but somewhat confused by the false dichotomies of modern politics. And many of his haters view him as one of those dichotomies as well vs. the individualist I understand him to be. His views on religion, white nationalism, anti-illegal immigration and anti-feminism is easily conflated as such. One just needs to decide if he speaks as a coercive collectivist or non-aggressive individualist on these matters - its a thin line and human nature easily falters.
 
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Bobbin

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#11
Well to be fair to Communism there has never been a truly communist nation ever. But then again that maybe due to the fact that in reality Communism could never be implemented. Communist thought is just fantasy
The resource based economy, which has been touted as communism in disguise, might be suitable for an early mars colony or something of the sort? So I'm undecided whether communism will never work, ever. But then again this is up for debate and some definition wars to start :)
 

Polymathic

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#12
The resource based economy, which has been touted as communism in disguise, might be suitable for an early mars colony or something of the sort? So I'm undecided whether communism will never work, ever. But then again this is up for debate and some definition wars to start :)
Only place I've seen Communism work is in Israel in those commune things they have
 

Prawnapple

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#14
The only challenge RR ever made to Stefan, as far as I'm aware, is regarding UPB. And if we're keeping score, Stefan was the last to respond and has held his position pretty well as far as I can tell. Where was he ripped to shreds, link?
UPB is a core debate to be had in philosophy. A fundamental if you will. It's about "oughts and is" and free will vs determinism, etc etc. When somebody comes out of the left field (I love this analogy for some reason) and absolutely dominates somebody to the point where they become angry and go on the attack, so much as to threaten the person because they've been absolutely decimated on a core feature of philosophy as a whole.. I like to call that "ripped to shreds", if you will.

Besides, Stefan reminds me of a weirdo. His face, voice and demeanour just gives me the creeps.
 

Bobbin

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#15
UPB is a core debate to be had in philosophy. A fundamental if you will. It's about "oughts and is" and free will vs determinism, etc etc. When somebody comes out of the left field (I love this analogy for some reason) and absolutely dominates somebody to the point where they become angry and go on the attack, so much as to threaten the person because they've been absolutely decimated on a core feature of philosophy as a whole.. I like to call that "ripped to shreds", if you will.
I find it interesting that the is/ought problem is seemingly resolved within the context of a goal. But I've never had a problem with relativism, it doesn't scare me. I'm fairly certain morality is relative and the only way to "solve" it in a unified manner seems to be individualism and non-aggression.

This also surely isn't anything new but that plus the universality of the 4 core principles in UPB that cannot be universally preferable by definition (Theft, rape, assault and murder) is compelling. I haven't read it yet though.

I still don't recall RR dominating SM or SM going on the attack and so on. He kinda seems tired of the same old critiques and then just shows frustration. The one issue I don't recall him addressing fully however is his arbitrary distinction of humanity being the most successful species.

Besides, Stefan reminds me of a weirdo. His face, voice and demeanour just gives me the creeps.
Not an argument :p Someone giving me the creeps doesn't change reality nor should it alter my perception of their arguments.
 
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garp

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#16
But will anyone even recognise it when it does return? I'd argue many elements already have infiltrated society, at least on a cultural level (as Molyneux points out).

Certainly if not communism, totalitarianism is becoming endemic.

They've just modernised the terminology, made it sound hip and trendy, intellectually sophisticated. Socialist agendas have been cloaked in anxiety provoking pseudo-science, for example, much of the environmental movement that tells us we must de-industrialise the world or face extinction with 12 years (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-e...world-will-end-in-12-years-if-we-dont-address). Or they're embedded in concepts of "privilege", or race, or gender, or religious issues. The machines will take over one day so we need UBI, healthcare must be socialised, wanting borders and preservation of your cultural identity is racist, something is wrong with you if you're a "cis-gendered" white male, gender isn't "binary". It's important to be an "ally". We must support some religion's rights to questionable moral standards, but not others.

Ways of thinking that seem reasonable on the surface, even voluntary, have been subtly imposed on us, and everyone swallows it hook, line and sinker, not realising how drastically things are actually changing. Accumulation of wealth is evil, you should not be allowed to spend your money on the wrong things (https://www.theguardian.com/comment...naires-donations-notre-dame-france-inequality). Land should belong to everyone, illegal immigrants have the same rights as you do (if not more).

Watch this clip from the UK and tell me that the sight of a women being dragged out of her flat and arrested for merely asking the authorities a question does not chill you to the bone if you value freedom:


Sure, this happened in the UK. But the phenomenon is global. The world is steadily becoming more totalitarian by the day. Anything not approved by the elitist intelligentsia is deplatformed, vilified and ostracised. And the list of things that are not approved grows seemingly by the day. Here's the latest - handshakes could be banned: https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/24/handshakes-banned-new-no-physical-contact-rules-9308128/. One "wrong" statement and the rage mob will be at your door, baying for blood and will not stop until your employer has fired you, every major social media platform has removed you and your entire livelihood and that of anyone associated with you has been destroyed, until you have been thoroughly "unpersoned".

No communism has not returned quite yet. But the conditions are now ripe for it.
 
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rambo919

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#17
Since the Russian Revolution every time the radical left becomes too powerful the radical right gets up to smack it down.... however no two fights are equal and each conflict can go either way.... especially if the radical right goes nuts the way the Nazi's did (though the argument can be made that the Nazi's also left only they were on the right of communism). In the west the centre kinda won because the left never really radicalized completely and in China the left won because the there was too much poverty and right crumbled.

SA is it's own unique crapshoot and is being an interesting experiment for some, no one REALLY knows how it will end. But the left is in the last stage of radicalization so the right will eventually either make a desperate last ditch attempt to survive or the particularly corrupt left will collapse in on itself at the moment of greatest strength and the right or centre will pick up the pieces in the aftermath.
 
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