Will Icasa confiscate FSO used to sell Internet?

[captainwifi]

FSO are license free, but the ECA gives Icasa jurisdiction over any device that is used to provide a commercial Internet service. If a non-ECNS license holder resells internet via Wi-Fi , Icasa confiscates the gear. Only non-profit activities are left alone.

But what will they do to FSO links used to resell internet, since no spectrum pollution issues are involved ?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Why would any right minded ISP use a LOS technology that has a maximum range in the region of 10kms and whose reliability is HEAVILY dependent on atmospheric conditions?...

 

[dominic]

FSO are license free, but the ECA gives Icasa jurisdiction over any device that is used to provide a commercial Internet service. If a non-ECNS license holder resells internet via Wi-Fi , Icasa confiscates the gear. Only non-profit activities are left alone.

But what will they do to FSO links used to resell internet, since no spectrum pollution issues are involved ?

once more into the breech ...

use of FSO does not require a spectrum licence but will
- require an ECNS licence for the hardware (unless it falls within an exemption as a private network)
- require an ECS licence for the internet services provided over it (unless it is non-profit or resale)

resale of internet via wifi is licence exempt (the licence exemption must be registered with ICASA at no cost)

so the final question does not really make sense: the person operating the FSO network and originating the ECS will require an ECNS and an ECS licence, anyone who resells Internet access on that network will not require licensing

but, like the bunny i am not convinced of the merits of FSO as an access network

 

[captainwifi]

once more into the breech ...

use of FSO does not require a spectrum licence but will
- require an ECNS licence for the hardware (unless it falls within an exemption as a private network)
- require an ECS licence for the internet services provided over it (unless it is non-profit or resale)

http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/FreeSpaceOptics using the Ronja LED system won't be licensed by Icasa for obvious reasons. Thus the answer is that Icasa will confiscate any FSO (LED based costs aroun R1500 for 1.4km distance) used to provide a commercial service without a license. In practice this won't be so easy because FSO can be "sprinkled" all over the place because there are no Fresnel zone issues. The laser FSO systems are to expensive at present unless we hack the patents.

once more into the breech ...
resale of internet via wifi is licence exempt (the licence exemption must be registered with ICASA at no cost)

But since the Ronja system won't be approved for commercial usage by Icasa, they will still confiscate the gear if they can, if used for commercial purposes. Wi-Fi is extremely vulnerable for confiscation because of the need for high towers. Icasa's main weapon of terror seems to be that they can destroy a tower with a cutting torch if you keep on placing back Wi-Fi gear, but Vodacom won't be allowed by the courts to break down your house if you keep on replacing a FSO node on your roof.

Build a FSO backbone transition node with 10 adjacent homes via fixed cabling, install a FSO on each roof and then provide a commercial service. Icasa can only target one home at a time, giving the others time to remove theirs, the constitution forbids Icasa from sealing of an entire street with police helicopters and armed swat team members , with hot coffee and buns provided by Vodacom. The costs of these Ronja systems can be reduced by integrating the electronic logic (Manchester encoding) on a single http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/FpGa, instead of the present discreet component solution from Ronja.

but, like the bunny i am not convinced of the merits of FSO as an access network

With the latest advances in LED switching a 100Meg using LEDS alone is I believe now possible. 100meg over 1.2km with unlimited repeater nodes(like a fiber switch) makes FSO a Wi-Fi killer. Even the distace with a LED system can be extended to 3km if very large Jewelers Loupes is used, but off-the shelf Loupes are massed produced only to a certain size. Larger must be specially produced but there is a minimum quantity of around 1000. The max size and distortions it introduces should be researched further. The manual manufacture of larger lenses should be explored, even Fresnel lenses is an option.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Jees you live in a strange world wifybabycakes...

You're just ignoring the atmospheric aspect... and now you're talking single Point to point links of 1.2km 100meg speeds... there are many better technologies that can do longer links with MUCH higher point to point speeds.

When you've installed your national FSO network, then we can talk....

 

[Ryder_JHB]

dejavu :|

 

[Pilgrim]

I would LOVE to see this work in Cape Town. On nice foggy day I cannot see beyond the garden wall, let alone 1.2km away.

captain, how does the FSO device operate in these weird, rarely seen, atmospheric conditions: Rain and Fog?

There is a reason that FSO is not being rolled out en masses...

 

[savage]

Chances that they can trace you is minimal because of the narrow beam width, however I've heard those lasers are visible in the right conditions - take your pic.

Personally, I hope they catch you and teach you a lesson you will never, ever forget.

 

[captainwifi]

Wimax development kits are available from Sundance
http://www.sundance.com/web/files/productpage.asp?STRFilter=SMT703 between 2.3 - 2.7Ghz see http://www.sundance.com/enews/2009-06.htm#june_enews_4g.

What I don't understand is why is it virtually impossible to get commercial Wimax gear on 2.4ghz? The solution is to create hundreds of femtocells with FSO from http://ronja.twibright.com/mesh.php, get everybody of Wi-Fi which uses DSSS which pollutes the spectrum and connect these FSO nodes with an OFDM based system such as Wimax.

We thus have vast swaths of spectrum on 2.4 and 5.8 available presently made useless because of the wrong technology. It is like trying to drive with a steam engine on a tar road,you're supposed to use a petrol engine.

Dough Steyn wants to give the ANC R1bil to implement a cowboys and Indians solution, which choppers, marines , gatling guns and bazookas. A better idea is to employ MSC adn PHD engineers to develop 802.16 systems using Sundance prototype platform. Create http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/UnlimitedBandwidth by combining Wimax with FSO. Then implement http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/ImageProcessing on the thousands of camera streams stopping crime and delivering bandwidth for economic growth in a converged solution.

You know the story about teaching a person to fish instead of giving him a fish? That is what i am asking Dough Steyn to do, his present scheme won't work because it implies the ANC is useless, its an ego thing. Rather have a solution that automatically means black people will aslo get bandwidth without paying for it, which our dear friends in Naspers and Vodacom can't allow - who are the real rapists I ask you?

Wimax like Linux is just software, don't be over-awd with the fancy [[FpGa]] chips, capacitors and general techno babble. The hardware platform implements FFT and Viterbi mathematical routines with an [[RfTransceiver]] stage. The issue is getting an IP core such as available from http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/SeaSolve or prototyping the 802.16 IEEE spec. ourselves using our engineers and releasing the designs on the Internet. Any hardware platform can be used. Note that releasing the design implementation of something that is patented(802.16 isn't patented it is an IEEE standard) either software or hardware isn't illegal, because the patent is supposed to protect the IP from being commercialized. But because of technology anything can now be manufactured on a small scale or different parts mass produced for final assembly

What Doug Steyn should also do is reverse engineer the commercial laser based FSO systems that can do 2.5Gig over 2km. All the stuff is patented, release the designs on the Internet(which isn't illegal) and we the community will then build our own laser FSO systems, because people with money like Steyn will get sued if they build it and sell it. But STeyn will not get sued if he releases the software and hardware details! All patents really do in the South African context is forbid Altech from selling us FSO laser systems, we leave Altech behind and build it ourselves then.

 

[daffy]

What I don't understand is why is it virtually impossible to get commercial Wimax gear on 2.4ghz?

Um, thats because no real ISP in their right mind would even try it.

It is like trying to drive with a steam engine on a tar road,you're supposed to use a petrol engine.

Says who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car

Dough Steyn wants to give the ANC R1bil to implement a cowboys and Indians solution, which choppers, marines , gatling guns and bazookas. A better idea is to employ MSC adn PHD engineers to develop 802.16 systems using Sundance prototype platform.
blah blah blah, link to own website as a reference removed blah blah blah

Seriously.. thats what I read in my mind..
Anyways, so basically you want to build a cell network using <insert cellular tech name here> with FSO backhauls? Welcome to 1998.

Wimax like Linux is just software, blahblahblahblah

Yes, and I've yet to see a proper deployment that actually sticks to the Wimax Forum specs. Because they keep changing!

What Doug Steyn should also do is reverse engineer the commercial laser based FSO systems that can do 2.5Gig over 2km. All the stuff is patented, release the designs on the Internet(which isn't illegal) and we the community will then build our own laser FSO systems, because people with money like Steyn will get sued if they build it and sell it. But STeyn will not get sued if he releases the software and hardware details! All patents really do in the South African context is forbid Altech from selling us FSO laser systems, we leave Altech behind and build it ourselves then.

Why should Doug Steyn do it? How about you get off your ass and do it?
Stop leaving it to other people to do all the work you're so keen to dish out.
So when are you demoing your first DSLAM install? Your first homemade FSO? First homebuilt Ronja? First WiMax FPGA?

Come on Captain-sit-on-my-ass.... Do something, instead of spending your days copying and pasting between google search results and your Wiki.

 

[captainwifi]

Um, thats because no real ISP in their right mind would even try it. Seriously.. thats what I read in my mind.. Anyways, so basically you want to build a cell network using <insert cellular tech name here> with FSO backhauls? Welcome to 1998.

*shameless plug* My new employers.
Uniterm Direct Based in Johannesburg.
Good stuff, and the knowledge to help you figure out how to use it. sales@dbg.co.za
And if you really want, you can pay them to set it up.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/printthread.php?t=15839&pp=15

 

[ToxicBunny]

"Supplying tomorrows technology today" is the slogan on their site..

Except they're not, they're selling yesterdays technology....

And I'm pretty sure your employer would not be too stoked to know that you're all for breaking the law and creating illegal "copies" of the hardware that they make a profit from.

 

[dominic]

*shameless plug* My new employers.
Uniterm Direct Based in Johannesburg.
Good stuff, and the knowledge to help you figure out how to use it. sales@dbg.co.za
And if you really want, you can pay them to set it up.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/printthread.php?t=15839&pp=15

ah well
now i can put a name to a tin foil hat

 

[daffy]

*shameless plug* My new employers.
Uniterm Direct Based in Johannesburg.
Good stuff, and the knowledge to help you figure out how to use it. sales@dbg.co.za
And if you really want, you can pay them to set it up.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/printthread.php?t=15839&pp=15

Wow. so your response is a post that I made in a thread in 2004?
Things have changed alot since 2004 captain-copy'npaste.

Never mind that I'm now based in Ireland... (and there's no Uniterm Direct branch out here...)
Technology has moved on in 5 years... But you're still stuck in the dark ages.

Anyways, I'd still recommend Uniterm Direct to anyone who needed the help

 

[captainwifi]

The DSSS Wi-Fi system will thus be replaced with OFDM Wimax which means that only LOS is needed and no more Fresnel zone issues. These p-t-p links then in turn connects the Ronja http://ronja.twibright.com/mesh.php networks. This allows a decentralized network with any point on the ronja network able to connect to the Wimax p-t-p links. Thus even if expensive commercial http://www.exaltcom.com/ need to be used , by dividing the cost among many users a network is possible.

Presently the 2.4ghz spectrum is to polluted for Wimax, by getting people on to Ronja and off the Wi-fi http://www.dbg.co.z are selling we will free up the spectrum.

To overcome Fresnel zone with DSSS (wi-fi) you need 10m high sights which can only be built at a central location, which Icasa will easily raid the moment you sell internet. The whole idea is to sell internet for a converged solution and not just provide non-profit activities. People want solutions to their problems which means internet, a community network where all you can do is play games means that a grassroots network won't go anywhere.

But with OFDM Wimax, LTE etc. any rooftop with LOS can be used thus instead of having only a few highsites we now have thousands and thus finally we will enable the dream of http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/UnlimitedBandwidth. Icasa won't be able to raid the few houses with wimax at the same time. IF they arrive grab the gear jump over the wall and run away, while your wimax node is down the other nodes provides redundancy.

Because a court order is only valid for a day, Icasa can't pitch up a tent infront of your house waiting for you to put that wimax gear back etc.. But with tall highsites it isn't so easy to protect.

 

[Sting]

Why bother? What you propose is illegal.

Go to jail. Do not pass begin.

Enough said.

 

[captainwifi]

Um, thats because no real ISP in their right mind would even try it.

This company sells commercial 2.4 and 5.8ghz wimax gear without calling it wimax for trademark reasons:


http://www.exaltcom.com/ex-2-4i-series.aspx

All-Indoor, Carrier-Class 2.4 GHz TDD Radio Systems for Low and Medium Capacity Ethernet and TDM Applications

The EX-2.4i series of all-indoor digital microwave radios is the first family of carrier-class TDD radios available in the 2.4 GHz ISM band. The EX-2.4i series includes the highest capacity 2.4 GHz radios available on the market, delivering up to 216 Mbps of aggregate user throughput and up to sixteen T1/E1s. The EX-2.4i I supports link distances of up to 30 miles with five 9s guaranteed throughput availability.

Featuring native TDM and native Ethernet transport and full software configurability and upgradeability, the EX-2.4i series was designed to meet demanding connectivity and backhaul requirements of enterprise organizations and service providers seeking the accessibility benefits of an all-indoor configuration.

 

[daffy]

This company sells commercial 2.4 and 5.8ghz wimax gear without calling it wimax for trademark reasons:


http://www.exaltcom.com/ex-2-4i-series.aspx

What makes you think this is WiMax ?

 

[captainwifi]

http://www.redlinecommunications.com/products/RedCONNEX_AN50e.html

The AN-50e system delivers an over the air rate of up to 72 Mbps, equivalent to 49 Mbps at the Ethernet level. With a robust non line of sight (NLOS) capability, long IF cable support for tower and high rise installations, audible antenna alignment and diagnostic capabilities for Ethernet and wireless, the AN-50e addresses the most challenging of deployment scenarios and makes installation and support easy. The AN-50e boasts software selectable channels that can be assigned during deployment on a best-performance basis.

The AN-50e system operates in the license exempt 5.470 - 5.725 GHz and 5.725 - 5.850 GHz bands and includes advanced technologies to address potential inter cell interference issues.

 

[daffy]

captainwifi: Its clear you have no idea how RF works. Just stop it.