Wisp does not like my wug? Think he is going to run to mama(icasa)

[I am Penguin]

Is providing Internet access legal?
Commercial Internet providers require appropriate licenses. However WAPA legal advice is that SWUG is a non-profit (and non-salary) organisation that is exempt from such license requirements, and is still so with the introduction of the new Electronic Communications Act, implemented in March 2008.

SWUG promotes the basic right contained in the ANC Freedom Charter : The doors of learning and culture shall be opened. The Internet is the most significant development in education since the invention of paper. It informs everyone of everything on every level. Therefore SWUG promotes Internet access for all

From Your link. So get legal advice from WAPA!

 

[Kameelperdza]

Ok i have asked them and waiting for a reply. Maybe i will join them.

 

[kilos]

But the internet was slow and high pings.

I heard that Wispernet - Oudtshoorn was bought by a local 2 way radio operation,any truth in the matter & who
Called overselling too many subscribers too little bandwidth, no QoS too.

 

[savagedavid]

I am not an expert on licensing but it seems I know a bit more about it than most here.

If you are building a private network that is for your own use (individual or company) than that is license exempt. You need to use type approved equipment (pretty much anything from a decent local supplier should be) and should not exceed EIRP limits as imposed by Icasa. Whether you access the internet or not and whether you cross a boundary or not is immaterial.

If you are building a community network (like a WUG) once again it is license exempt unless you are selling data services on the network.

If you wish to sell data services (i.e. become a WISP) than you need an ECNS license to build and host the network, and you need an ECS license to resell the service. Each license application costs R 10 000.00, so R 20 000.00 for both. After that there is a yearly cost which is a percentage of turnover (not exactly sure how much - between 1 and 3%). This cost is only when turnover exceeds R 1 000 000.00 per year. For a small ISP this is unlikely.

Hope this helps.

 

[rebel998]

I am not an expert on licensing but it seems I know a bit more about it than most here.

If you are building a private network that is for your own use (individual or company) than that is license exempt. You need to use type approved equipment (pretty much anything from a decent local supplier should be) and should not exceed EIRP limits as imposed by Icasa. Whether you access the internet or not and whether you cross a boundary or not is immaterial.

If you are building a community network (like a WUG) once again it is license exempt unless you are selling data services on the network.

If you wish to sell data services (i.e. become a WISP) than you need an ECNS license to build and host the network, and you need an ECS license to resell the service. Each license application costs R 10 000.00, so R 20 000.00 for both. After that there is a yearly cost which is a percentage of turnover (not exactly sure how much - between 1 and 3%). This cost is only when turnover exceeds R 1 000 000.00 per year. For a small ISP this is unlikely.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much. So its not as expensive as I thought!

 

[Syndyre]

Run an encrypted VPN over the WUG network between your house, your boss's house and the office, what comes through that encrypted tunnel is then irrelevant to anyone else and they won't know or be able to prove anything.

 

[henkk78]

A few corrections

Sheesh, still a LOT of misinformation being spread here. I know many of you are trying to help, but please do some research before making sweeping statements.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a VANs license. Old concept. Been replaced by ECS & ECNS licenses a while back.

Secondly, "municipal boundaries" are in no way relevant to setting up wireless networks. Again, an old concept from an old law that has been superseded a long time ago. (I sometimes wonder if Telkom pays people to keep referring to this on these forums.)

Thirdly, savagedavid 's post contains in a nutshell what you need to know. WUGs are license exempt. Of course, that doesn't mean you can go and do all sorts of crazy stuff, especially with regards to what spectrum you use and how many W you run your equipment at.

Wireless has a REAL chance of bringing the internet to more people in South Africa at better prices. Although SA does still have some silly laws left from the old days, most of the time actions are only "illegal" if they're "unethical". Connecting two locations together to share internet using ISM band is neither.

 

[savagedavid]

You should also note that having an ECN/ECNS license does not entitle you to "more right" to use the ISM (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz) band. The very nature of ISM is that it is unlicensed. This implies that you have as much right to use the band as anyone else. On the other hand it provides no protection whatsoever from other people using the same band as you or causing interference on the spectrum. This applies both ways i.e. a licensed wisp cannot complain to icasa that you are interfering with his network if you both run ISM frequencies. Neither can you complain to icasa about the wisp.

This is why organizations like WAPA are moving towards self regulation in the industry, whereby problems are sorted out "in house" and can generally be resolved quickly.

In my experience most (but certainly not all) issues can be sorted out simply by contacting the person causing the problem and trying to arrive at a solution between the two of you.

 

[w1z4rd]

Thanks Henk and Savagedavid for updating our information.

 

[Kameelperdza]

I heard that Wispernet - Oudtshoorn was bought by a local 2 way radio operation,any truth in the matter & who
Called overselling too many subscribers too little bandwidth, no QoS too.

I have spoken to someone at hilbert george. They said that they have bought wispernet. Wispernet oudtshoorn was using the lisence of wispernet george but i think they are providing internet without a lisence now.

i might be wrong but that is what my source said.

 

[Kameelperdza]

Sheesh, still a LOT of misinformation being spread here. I know many of you are trying to help, but please do some research before making sweeping statements.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a VANs license. Old concept. Been replaced by ECS & ECNS licenses a while back.

Secondly, "municipal boundaries" are in no way relevant to setting up wireless networks. Again, an old concept from an old law that has been superseded a long time ago. (I sometimes wonder if Telkom pays people to keep referring to this on these forums.)

Thirdly, savagedavid 's post contains in a nutshell what you need to know. WUGs are license exempt. Of course, that doesn't mean you can go and do all sorts of crazy stuff, especially with regards to what spectrum you use and how many W you run your equipment at.

Wireless has a REAL chance of bringing the internet to more people in South Africa at better prices. Although SA does still have some silly laws left from the old days, most of the time actions are only "illegal" if they're "unethical". Connecting two locations together to share internet using ISM band is neither.

Thanx that helps alot. my tx-power is set to 20dbm and my freqs is set in the acceptable range.

 

[rebel998]

I wondered what happened to you.

So if they're supplying without a license, what are the chances of him squeeling on you?

 

[kilos]

I have spoken to someone at hilbert george. They said that they have bought wispernet. Wispernet oudtshoorn was using the lisence of wispernet george but i think they are providing internet without a lisence now.

So Hilbert Electronics ( 2 way radio turned to Wireless Broadband) did not buy Wispernet - Oudtshoorn just Wispernet - George.
They claim in their newspaper ads that they have Southern Cape to Cape Town link. I wonder how "clean" - carrier grade Hmm
So who owns Wispernet - Oudtshoorn ? JohanB

 

[Kameelperdza]

So Hilbert Electronics ( 2 way radio turned to Wireless Broadband) did not buy Wispernet - Oudtshoorn just Wispernet - George.
They claim in their newspaper ads that they have Southern Cape to Cape Town link. I wonder how "clean" - carrier grade Hmm
So who owns Wispernet - Oudtshoorn ? JohanB

That link will work great with my wug, would love to connect to ctwug. I went on the hilbert website and on their coverage it does not show that they cover anywhere near capetown.I dont know who is in charge of wispernet now. But some guy called chris used to mantain everything. His number is also in the ssid's. Maybe he is in charge. I pick up about 51 ssid's with my 12dbi omni. I would like to paste my result but cant copy from inside winbox