Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem

copacetic

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I tried POE this weekend, after about 4 hours I was so overwhelmed with what I actually need to do, what the purpose is for me doing this and in general what the hell is going on. They don't teach you anything in that game it seems, and the interface is less than helpful 90% of the time
Take my word for it, and FOLLOW A COMPREHENSIVE STARTER BUILD GUIDE. I cannot stress this enough. People seem to be very resistant to doing this for some reason, but it will enable you to learn the game, in an enjoyable way. It's very complex, which is one of the main things that makes it so good, but it's inevitable that the barrier for entry is going to be a bit high, as the studio prioritises content over presentation and accessibility (which is not to say that these things are terrible, just less important in the context of their monetisation cycle). That said, there is a fairly comprehensive in-game tutorial and guide to the basics, which I think a lot of people may miss.

Also, once you figure things out, it's actually way less complicated than it seems at first. Everything fits together quite sensibly, considering all the constantly evolving moving parts, and it's mainly the sheer volume that is the issue, not the actual mechanics, which mostly become obvious in retrospect.

Anyway, if you want to, ask anything in the thread, and join the guild and ask in-game, I'm sure you will get help (although the league has gotten quiet at this point, new cycle probably in March some time, which would be a good time to give it a go again).
 

animal531

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I played a bit the weekend, the only bug I found was on my archer where I couldn't hit some of the small bird enemies with my arrows, I had to use AoE or other special abilities (no issues found on the melee character).

So far I'm enjoying it, they seem to have taken a lot of ideas from all the other games in the genre. Graphics is good, and it has some great attacking animations.

I'm not that high level yet, so will have to see how combat gets at higher level.
Overall they can add a lot of quality of life elements, such as a sell all button to vendors etc, but its still early days.
 

Vrotappel

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I find this fascinating. What is it that makes you return? The mechanics? Ritual? Comfort zone?
I have got 3300 hours in POE and I also would not be able to explain the story.

There is something that makes one come back every league.

Wolcen is currently a huge mess compared to D3 and POE.
 

copacetic

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I have got 3300 hours in POE and I also would not be able to explain the story.

There is something that makes one come back every league.

Wolcen is currently a huge mess compared to D3 and POE.
I really hope they work on Wolcen - It really could be a bit of fun if they get it working properly. It is, as you say, a ****ing mess though. I'm guessing they needed cash, and if the steam charts and broken servers are anything to go by, they probably got more sales than they bargained for, which hopefully provides them the resources to continue working on the game.

As as aside, some dude's essentially written a book about PoE's lore, it's 276 pages long! What. The. Hell.
 

Forum Reader

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I have got 3300 hours in POE and I also would not be able to explain the story.

There is something that makes one come back every league.

Wolcen is currently a huge mess compared to D3 and POE.

Having spent about 30 hours on Wolcen this weekend, I think it does not have the longevity compared to POE. There's very few skills and not too much you can change with them. So it's good for a few builds and maybe 100 to 200 hours of gameplay but after than you'll be done with it. Though a game that can provide 100 hours of good gameplay is still a good game. They just need to fix all the major bugs.

Also a lot of skills you use in Wolcen, you think you could be playing in POE and doing it better. POE has sort of ruined ARPG's in that sense. So when playing Wolcen I specifically try to choose a build type that's different/unavailable in POE. The ailment stacking in Wolcen is quite interesting for instance. Making my melee build convert all damage to toxic and rend to poison and bleed and focus on stacking it like crazy with all the ailment mulitplier nodes. It's possible to get 6 poisons and 6 bleeds with a single hit if both proc.
 

OrbitalDawn

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The amount of hours, or the fact that I don't know the story, really, after all that time, or both?

In any event, easy enough to answer it all. Why so many hours? Well, game has been out since 2013, and there are not many options for Diablo style ARPGs, a gap which PoE has filled better than anything else, and it's really the only game genre I enjoy (and I've tried all the ARPGs out there). It's updated regularly, with economy resets every three months (in addition to stacks of new content with each cycle).

That said, I'd love nothing more than for there to be other similar games to play. There just haven't been, outside of, perhaps Grim Dawn, and for a while Diablo 3, once it had been 'fixed', although both lack the sort of longevity that PoE provides.

Basically, it's the pinnacle of the genre at the moment, and there are no alternatives to it.

As for story, - it's an old game, and has been incrementally updated, with many expansions, etc, and no huge budget for CGI intros and there was never a cohesive telling of the story, and I don't really care all that much, to be honest. I'm just in it for the dopamine.
Thanks for the thorough answer. I was referring more to the lack of interest in the story.

I guess it wouldn't make much difference after 5.5k hours either way - if there was a story you'd have gone through it so many times by then already. :)
 

copacetic

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Thanks for the thorough answer. I was referring more to the lack of interest in the story.

I guess it wouldn't make much difference after 5.5k hours either way - if there was a story you'd have gone through it so many times by then already. :)
It so happens, I think I like this sort of game precisely because the story doesn't have to be important for the game to be good - I have a very limited attention span for some reason when it comes to the narrative of computer games (which is weird, as I've read thousands of books quite comfortably without getting distracted).

Don't get me wrong though, I certainly have a general idea of the story obviously, and if the game had been fully fleshed out from the start with cutscenes and more coherent in the sense that it had not been developed and added to in pieces over several years, it would have been much easier to grasp, and I would have paid more attention.
 

Forum Reader

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It so happens, I think I like this sort of game precisely because the story doesn't have to be important for the game to be good - I have a very limited attention span for some reason when it comes to the narrative of computer games (which is weird, as I've read thousands of books quite comfortably without getting distracted).

Don't get me wrong though, I certainly have a general idea of the story obviously, and if the game had been fully fleshed out from the start with cutscenes and more coherent in the sense that it had not been developed and added to in pieces over several years, it would have been much easier to grasp, and I would have paid more attention.
POE story in short:

- You are exiled from Oriath by Dominus for some crime
- Some stuff happens and you're in Act 3. Piety bad. You kill Dominus.
- Then you're in Act 4. Piety bad then Piety good, then Piety bad. Piety dies.
- Some stuff happens and you kill the good guy in Act 5 releasing Kitava.
- You're too weak to beat him.
- You then spend the next 5 Acts killing the other gods and taking their powers.
- You kill Kitava in Act 10.
- Then comes maps which is another whole story.
 

Forum Reader

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The more I play it the more I realize that it is so bugged with design that don't make any sense. eg. When you realize that ailment damage is based on your level and doesn't depend on anything else except things like %ailment damage. Weapon doesn't matter at all. A lvl1 white weapon with 1-2 Rend damage will inflict the same bleed damage as a lvl40 weapon with 20-50 Rend damage. So now on my ailment build I'm going with a pistol and using the 4 damaging ailments. 2 on spell and the other 2 on pistol. Then just rotate between the two in battle. Can do this with a lvl1 weapon and just a ring or amulet to get the right damage types and ignore everything else.

Looking into everything, they would need to revamp a significant amount of things to make the game better. It almost seems as it would be better for them to develop another game than to spend a another couple years adding and fixing things to make sense.
 

Nemoneiros

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POE story in short:

- You are exiled from Oriath by Dominus for some crime
- Some stuff happens and you're in Act 3. Piety bad. You kill Dominus.
- Then you're in Act 4. Piety bad then Piety good, then Piety bad. Piety dies.
- Some stuff happens and you kill the good guy in Act 5 releasing Kitava.
- You're too weak to beat him.
- You then spend the next 5 Acts killing the other gods and taking their powers.
- You kill Kitava in Act 10.
- Then comes maps which is another whole story.
If you are deep into poe, get the comics and art book. Nice additions if you are into those things.
 

Conack

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Can anyone comment on latency as far as playing online with buddies go?
 

copacetic

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Can anyone comment on latency as far as playing online with buddies go?
I tried online, and found it completely unplayable with around ~170 ms latency. There's a delay between attacking and the hit registering. Combined with the already awkward-feeling animation delays, lack of skill queuing and things like potions being non-instant (i.e. you need to wait for an animation to finish), any additional delay makes everything even worse.
 

copacetic

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The more I play it the more I realize that it is so bugged with design that don't make any sense. eg. When you realize that ailment damage is based on your level and doesn't depend on anything else except things like %ailment damage. Weapon doesn't matter at all. A lvl1 white weapon with 1-2 Rend damage will inflict the same bleed damage as a lvl40 weapon with 20-50 Rend damage. So now on my ailment build I'm going with a pistol and using the 4 damaging ailments. 2 on spell and the other 2 on pistol. Then just rotate between the two in battle. Can do this with a lvl1 weapon and just a ring or amulet to get the right damage types and ignore everything else.

Looking into everything, they would need to revamp a significant amount of things to make the game better. It almost seems as it would be better for them to develop another game than to spend a another couple years adding and fixing things to make sense.
It's a total mess. Hardly any of it makes sense. All that aside, it was fun hitting things for a while, as that visceral part of it is enjoyable - However, the game is simply dreadfully boring. The loot and affixes are boring, often superfluous, and it's a total chore trying to find an upgrade while selling everything after every expedition level, as again, all the loot is pretty much identical.

I don't understand how they did all this so badly, to be honest, and I don't see how it can be fixed without a complete overhaul of the underlying systems.

But most of all, what is the point of going further? I can grind for tens of hours to upgrade Stormfall, but to what end? There's nothing to do, aside from more pointless endless dungeons, full of the same boring crap.

It's a pity.
 

Forum Reader

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It's a total mess. Hardly any of it makes sense. All that aside, it was fun hitting things for a while, as that visceral part of it is enjoyable - However, the game is simply dreadfully boring. The loot and affixes are boring, often superfluous, and it's a total chore trying to find an upgrade while selling everything after every expedition level, as again, all the loot is pretty much identical.

I don't understand how they did all this so badly, to be honest, and I don't see how it can be fixed without a complete overhaul of the underlying systems.

But most of all, what is the point of going further? I can grind for tens of hours to upgrade Stormfall, but to what end? There's nothing to do, aside from more pointless endless dungeons, full of the same boring crap.

It's a pity.
I finished the campaign and did a couple expeditions and now I'm done with it. Think the main thing this game did is make me realize how good Poe is. There is really no competition in arpgs. If poe were to get a graphics and animation overhaul (it's still ok) to update it to 2020, there is nothing that would even come close for probably the next 20 years. They could keep the entire game the same and just update graphics.
 

copacetic

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I finished the campaign and did a couple expeditions and now I'm done with it. Think the main thing this game did is make me realize how good Poe is. There is really no competition in arpgs. If poe were to get a graphics and animation overhaul (it's still ok) to update it to 2020, there is nothing that would even come close for probably the next 20 years. They could keep the entire game the same and just update graphics.
I really was hoping Wolcen could fill in the gap between the incredible complexity of PoE, and also give us something looking a bit more updated, but not be quite as confounding as PoE is - This would be perfect to fill time between leagues. But it's just so incredibly goddamn boring. It's the most beautiful looking borefest I've ever come across. Even if they fix up all the bugs, and don't see how they can make it more exciting short of overhauling 90% of the game at this point.

Well, we're getting a lot of upgrades with PoE 2, in the next year or so.

PoE 2


 

Forum Reader

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Think Quin did a good review here of Wolcen. He played it for about 100 hours so it's not one of those paid day 1 reviews:


Ignoring all the game breaking bugs, the whole skill balance and purpose of min-maxing doesn't exist. Near the end there he basically sums it up. He has never played a game in beta that had as many bugs as this and this is a full release.
 
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Scary_Turtle

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Think Quin did a good review here of Wolcen. He played it for about 100 hours so it's not one of those paid day 1 reviews:

Ignoring all the game breaking bugs, the whole skill balance and purpose of min-maxing doesn't exist. Near the end there he basically sums it up. He has never played a game in beta that had as many bugs as this and this is a full release.
Yeah gave this a try it needs 6 months before I try it again, the biggest problem I have with the Wolcen team is that they can only implement an update once a week.

So if they release a game breaking patch lets say where by moving a item from one spot to the next
gave you infinite money. They have to wait a full week before they can patch it and by that time the entire economy of the game is broken.

I see lots of character wipes coming in the next little bit.

The only really big plus it has is it looks amazing other then that it needs lots of work.
 

Forum Reader

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Yeah gave this a try it needs 6 months before I try it again, the biggest problem I have with the Wolcen team is that they can only implement an update once a week.

So if they release a game breaking patch lets say where by moving a item from one spot to the next
gave you infinite money. They have to wait a full week before they can patch it and by that time the entire economy of the game is broken.

I see lots of character wipes coming in the next little bit.

The only really big plus it has is it looks amazing other then that it needs lots of work.

I think the key issue is that even if you ignore all the bugs like server issues, game crashes, duping, quests breaking, stash wipes and progression lost, all of which can be patched, the actual skill balance and design is so messed up. That's not a bug or coding problem, it's a developer design problem. eg. There's passives on the tree that can give like 10000% increased damage or you can get 100% block chance or you can get 100% cooldown reduction, all of which break the game. Whilst nodes around them give things like 10% damage or 10% health which is nothing in comparison. It's so out of balance you wonder how could someone actually code things like these into the game and think it's fine.

Quin even went into the game files and checked what most of the passives do versus what it says on the skill tree wheel. Many of them don't even match and do different things or don't even work. So you're seeing one thing but what's happening is another because the coding doesn't even match and this is a full release.
 
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