Woman jailed over headscarf

Status
Not open for further replies.
BBSA

BBSA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
21,924
marine1 said:
And you are a troll. Carry on troll boy :rolleyes:
Shame am I getting under your skin?
Click to expand...

Strange how you always use the troll-card then you are in a conner:p

You have offended many people in this thread, grow some balls and apologise to them.
 
Last edited:
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
BlueCollar said:
I don't understand your answer though - you keep saying that 78.4% of American adults are Christian. I'm not sure how this affects "how things are run" unless you're referring to the government somehow. That's why I keep asking you if you believe that the American government is a Christian government.
Click to expand...
And as I pointed out and you are ignoring, in a democracy, majority rules, no?
 
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
BBSA said:
Strange how you always you the troll-card then you are in a conner:p

You have offended many people in this thread, grow some balls and apologise to them.
Click to expand...
You telling me to apologise? Bwahahaha good one. Every single time I say anything you have a comment that is inflammatory or defamatory, but you are one of those guys who are all tough over the internet. I am done arguing and fighting with you. I you want to have a fight then continue this in PM or meet me.
You speak of balls? Wonder if you have one. :rolleyes:
Troll card? Funny how I only use it on you.
Hah telling me to apologise.....look in the mirror.
 
CathJ

CathJ

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,878
marine1 said:
Ask a question and I will answer it if I can. If you want to try and start a fight then dont expect an answer.
So because a person doesn't believe what you want them to or follow a certain religion and is opposed to extremists, you consider that person a troll? I have every right to believe what I want, actually.
I fully support the law of that country and think the judge made a good call.
Oh and how am I stirring up trouble? Did I make the story up? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No, not at all. If you truly have the beliefs that you show on this forum (not just in this post), you're fully entitled to post them.

I just suspect, and I could be wrong, based on the fact that you seem to frequently take the opposing view, and fairly aggressively at that; combined with calling BBSA a troll and asking if you're getting under his skin; that you are at least in part more interested in causing controversy than discussion.
 
CathJ

CathJ

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,878
marine1 said:
And as I pointed out and you are ignoring, in a democracy, majority rules, no?
Click to expand...

No, the constitution rules. Democracy can overrule the constitution, but they haven't done so yet in the US. And the constitution explicity decrees the separation of religion and state.
 
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
CathJ said:
No, not at all. If you truly have the beliefs that you show on this forum (not just in this post), you're fully entitled to post them.

I just suspect, and I could be wrong, based on the fact that you seem to frequently take the opposing view, and fairly aggressively at that; combined with calling BBSA a troll and asking if you're getting under his skin; that you are at least in part more interested in causing controversy than discussion.
Click to expand...
Cath I will debate you as you seem to debate the facts and not the person as BBSA continuously does.
I do believe strongly against any religion dictating to anyone that does not believe in it. I have those views and as you pointed out, I am entitled to have them just like you are entitled to have yours. I posted a news article and think the Judge did what he should have. It is fine to debate and argue the facts but I am getting a little tired of BBSA name calling and defaming me, If he wants to resolve this in person I am happy to.
But no he would rather post his stupid smiley's and defame me and have the threads closed for his own agenda.
 
Last edited:
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
CathJ said:
No, the constitution rules. Democracy can overrule the constitution, but they haven't done so yet in the US. And the constitution explicity decrees the separation of religion and state.
Click to expand...
Just like our constitution guarantees a citizen the right to safety and or security in this country. It may be in the constitution and may be a different thins in reality and maybe that is why the dollar bill says "In g0d we trust"
 
Last edited:
F

Fuma

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,111
marine1 said:
You telling me to apologise? Bwahahaha good one. Every single time I say anything you have a comment that is inflammatory or defamatory, but you are one of those guys who are all tough over the internet. I am done arguing and fighting with you. I you want to have a fight then continue this in PM or meet me.
You speak of balls? Wonder if you have one. :rolleyes:
Troll card? Funny how I only use it on you.
Hah telling me to apologise.....look in the mirror.
Click to expand...

Hohohohoho. Take it easy man. It almost Christmas ppl.
I like the race-card/troll-card thingie though.
 
B

BCO

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
13,229
CathJ said:
No, the constitution rules. Democracy can overrule the constitution, but they haven't done so yet in the US. And the constitution explicity decrees the separation of religion and state.
Click to expand...

Precisely Cath.

Marine - in a democracy, the people vote in a government of their choice sure. That does NOT mean that because the US people are (predominantly) Christian, that the US government is a Christian government.

*edit* "In god we trust" was only added to the dollar bill in 1957, directly in opposition to what the founding fathers of the USA would have wished. Read up on the First Amendment. The United States is and always has been a SECULAR government.
 
Last edited:
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
Hmm and since when is the US of today the same as the one that was founded? That is what some might call progress.
 
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
Oh and by the way it was first used on a US coin in 1864 just by the way. ;)
Oh and was also used due to the increasing religious sentiment during the US civil war
 
CathJ

CathJ

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,878
marine1 said:
Just like our constitution guarantees a citizen the right to safety and or security in this country. It may be in the constitution and may be a different thins in reality and maybe that is why the dollar bill says "In g0d we trust"
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point, although as BlueCollar pointed out it was a later addition. The Pledge Of Allegiance, though, also says "one nation, under God", and I'm not sure when that came in. Honestly, I suspect the founding father's meant for all branches of christianity (catholic, protestant, etc) rather than all religions, but the fact of the matter is that the US today is a multi-cultural country, and has many non-Christian citizens who not only were born and grew up there, but have many-times-great grandparents who were born and grew up there too.

It's as I said in an earlier post - if it doesn't cost you much to tolerate their religious observances, and it hurts them a lot not to, then let them. If it does cost you a lot, and it doesn't matter that much to them, then don't let them. If, as commonly happens, both of you get stubborn about it and maintain that it's more important to you than the other person... well, that's tricky, and can only be dealt with on a case by case basis. But you can't tell them "it's not your country and not your religion, go somewhere else" when it is their country.
 
marine1

marine1

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
49,503
CathJ said:
That is an interesting point, although as BlueCollar pointed out it was a later addition. The Pledge Of Allegiance, though, also says "one nation, under God", and I'm not sure when that came in. Honestly, I suspect the founding father's meant for all branches of christianity (catholic, protestant, etc) rather than all religions, but the fact of the matter is that the US today is a multi-cultural country, and has many non-Christian citizens who not only were born and grew up there, but have many-times-great grandparents who were born and grew up there too.
Click to expand...
Yes but when in a country that is predominantly one religion, one should respect their laws and rules. Same like Iran, I would never go there as I do not agree with their religious policies. The same should be said for any other country. Dont go there if you do not want to follow the rules and laws there. The difference is I dont want to change Iran to follow my religion or any other religion for that matter, can the same be said about majority of these Muslims? They clearly said they want the UK to be a Muslim state at one stage, and no I dont have the link.
I think the main issue here for me is the fact that these guys do not have the right to decided which laws they will obey. The country does not follow Islamic law and they must therefore respect that countries laws. It boils down to respect for that country.

CathJ said:
It's as I said in an earlier post - if it doesn't cost you much to tolerate their religious observances, and it hurts them a lot not to, then let them. If it does cost you a lot, and it doesn't matter that much to them, then don't let them. If, as commonly happens, both of you get stubborn about it and maintain that it's more important to you than the other person... well, that's tricky, and can only be dealt with on a case by case basis. But you can't tell them "it's not your country and not your religion, go somewhere else" when it is their country.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right however it is not as simple in reality.

Amazing what happens when 2 mature people debate without defaming each other hey?
 
Last edited:
B

BCO

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
13,229
marine1 said:
Hmm and since when is the US of today the same as the one that was founded? That is what some might call progress.
Click to expand...

Well considering that the First Amendment still stands in the constitution, I'd say it's the same today as it was then. Until the First Amendment has been removed, the US remains a secular state, despite what certain people would have you believe.

@ Cath - "one nation under god" was also added, controversially, in the 1950's.
 
B

BCO

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
13,229
marine1 said:
I think the main issue here for me is the fact that these guys do not have the right to decided which laws they will obey. The country does not follow Islamic law and they must therefore respect that countries laws. It boils down to respect for that country.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. I will, however, stand by the fact that in the US, these are not Christian laws, they are secular laws. Nitpicking, I know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top