Sign up with GoogleThe country is already a better place without an alleged thief like you person. Now take your canadian and..... (oh you know)
It doesn't count.
It doesn't count.
Last edited:
-
Ask a question and get free supportUnlock new privileges and see hidden discussionsWin prizes and earn reputation
-
Question of the day ~ How often do you braai?
-
Afristay giveaway.Win a 2-night stay for two people at an establishment of your choice with R1,000 in spending money. Enter here.
World Cup 2010 Debacle: FIFA Asks America to Stand By to Take Over at Short Notice
- Thread starter nocilah
- Start date
I am totally amazed at the patriotasim of the average South African.. Politicians take backhands (aka travelgate), Jailed, murders arent even reported anymore - and yet, when someone mentions WC2010 the zelots get their knickers in a twist. making personal attacks on a person that is stating his opinion makes you no better that a common garden-variety thug.
I dont believe the WC will get here, and that is my opinion. you have a different belief, and I really dont care what it is..... and if I mention that I am leaving SA, the zelots go on about "Good Riddance" so all I have to say is .. "Goodbye to my Home - wonderfull SA, See the forum from the other side of the Big pond - you all enjoy the WC2010" (or the WC2010-Gate scandal)
Last person leaving SA, please switch off the lights.
I dont believe the WC will get here, and that is my opinion. you have a different belief, and I really dont care what it is..... and if I mention that I am leaving SA, the zelots go on about "Good Riddance" so all I have to say is .. "Goodbye to my Home - wonderfull SA, See the forum from the other side of the Big pond - you all enjoy the WC2010" (or the WC2010-Gate scandal)
Last person leaving SA, please switch off the lights.
Amen
5 new stadiums for football?
They should have just stick to the original plan and upgraded rugby stadiums, atleast the rugby fans would have appreciated it.
Now we can all watch 5 billion rand being torn apart and thrown on to the pitch after kaizer chiefs lose their matches..
Its not really patriotism, more blind obedience or denial. If you can't accept fair criticism then you're not really being rational. Particularly when people say to others that complain "Well if you don't like it then leave" and then when that person says they are they get attacked for doing so.
Nope, this country isnt a better place, cos he's still living in SA, with mommy running a scaley company that will never be worth R10 000 never mind the 5 billion dream dollars he talks about
Was this post necessary? making personal attacks just shows the intelect level.
My first time in this forum second post this morning, and this is my welcoming message. I'm normally subscribed to oversees forums pertaining my technological equipments. Amazing how oversees people have a warm enviroment, proud of their countries, discuss issues positively pertaining their country and here at my first prouly south african community forum i find such attidutes. Sad isn't it.. I personally believe if we put a positive attitude together as a community we can make't to the WC. Yes our leaders have lost it in many ways but doesn't mean we have are a loosing country.
songz
songz
I am not a soccer person, I really dont care about the WC2010 - what I do care about is tollerance - Everyone has an opinion, and just cos there are disagreements doesnt make you any less of a patriot.
If someone slandered the SABC, SARS, The Dept of Home affairs - would you care? so why the fights
If someone slandered the SABC, SARS, The Dept of Home affairs - would you care? so why the fights
Last edited:
I agree with you Richard. The differance here though is that people who have left or advocate leaving always have a lot to say about what doesn't concern them. They have all the answers, (not). If you are not part of the solution.............
A case in point was Cive Rathbone. Why do you think he was booed here?
And another, Kevin Peterson!!
If you want to leave, leave and shut your face, and let us who have faith and love this place get on with it.
Well I can't be very positive about the biggest economy in Africa that instead of having the most affordable access in Africa has one of the most expensive. This makes no logical sense for us comsumers in South Africa who have to pay outrageous amounts per Megabyte for bandwidth or per minute for dialup.
You speak about proudly South African but its founding member is a company that charges so many times more than other Southern African countries for access to South Africa's only undersea cable link that it has exclusive rights for that one could say that in this country telecoms can be seen as a tax on consumers rather than a means for economic development or "discussing issues positively" as you put it.
Mbeki recently had a chance to fast track the new undersea cable but instead of doing it he keeps on delaying because his wants to maximize government profits & dividends of Telkom shares, maximize tax income on internet access as well as his African ambitions of proceeding only if all the African countries have signed his undersea cable agreement.
A lot of countries are in a very different position to SA though. I don't think blind patriotism would help anybody, its more effective to point out the problems and try and get them fixed than it is to try and paper over them and pretend they're not there.
Yzerfontein
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 58
Taking bets
I'm willing to take bets that Soccer World Cup 2010 will take place in South Africa.
That report in Spiegel was nothing more than rumours...Spiegel also referred to the Italians (before the German/Italian match) as being greasy mama's boys....the newspaper says a lot of stuff.
The World Cup 2010 will probably be beset with problems, but it will take place in South Africa. I think there are errors of judgement being made in the stadium builds - e.g. building a new stadium in Cape Town for one match (Cape Town would get a quarterfinal match without the new stadium), but there are also positives coming from the Cup being in South Africa - e.g. political activity in South Africa is firmly in the international spotlight (now if only we could get more of these competitions here....there's no pressure like that of failing in the full spotlight of the international community).
I'm willing to take bets that Soccer World Cup 2010 will take place in South Africa.
That report in Spiegel was nothing more than rumours...Spiegel also referred to the Italians (before the German/Italian match) as being greasy mama's boys....the newspaper says a lot of stuff.
The World Cup 2010 will probably be beset with problems, but it will take place in South Africa. I think there are errors of judgement being made in the stadium builds - e.g. building a new stadium in Cape Town for one match (Cape Town would get a quarterfinal match without the new stadium), but there are also positives coming from the Cup being in South Africa - e.g. political activity in South Africa is firmly in the international spotlight (now if only we could get more of these competitions here....there's no pressure like that of failing in the full spotlight of the international community).
In the case of the people you mentioned, maybe you have half a point. The bottom line is we are losing skilled, talented people daily because of this government's inability to allow fairness and equality for all. Mark Shuttleworth, a person who is extremely critical of the government, particularly over the rediculous monetary policies escapes your list why? He doesn't even live in South Africa officially because of the way the system is skewed in favour of the non white. Every single attempt to hold the ANC led government accountable for anything in this country is dismissed - usually "with contempt". People get told to leave if they're not happy with the way things are being done, then when they leave and rightfully voice their complaints, they get chastised by the likes of the average ANC patriotic fool.
The government is about to release tax payer money to the tune of about 10 BILLION RAND (more likely double that considering ONE stadium (in Cape Town) is expected to cost 3.3 BILLION RAND) to fund and host this 2 month event. Not to mention the 23 BILLION RAND it is going to cost to build a Train that is likely to be pointless to the people urgently in need of reliable Public Transport. And the billions that will be spent on the Taxi Recap program that is doomed to fail is another avenue for pointless expenditure.
The importance of this event is so overstated it is actually rediculous. A country that has about 5 - 10 million people living in shacks deems it more important to build 3.3 Billion Rand stadiums to host an event that would likely leave us close to economic ruin. Yeah, the priorities of the ANC and by definition the GVT are most certainly excellent, and there for the people.
Last edited:
People keep on saying how much the 2010 world cup is going to benefit SA economically but is there really any evidence of this? Greece had to massively increase its budget deficit to pay for the Athens olympics and will continue paying for them for decades.
Thank you.
I agree that this is very disappointing and that this excuse for a Government MUST do something about it. I do not take issue with peoples choice to leave. That is exersizing free will. And btw, it is generally those same people who btch about being told to leave that are considering leaving anyway. I say stop threatening us, go. And the very best to you and yours. (No sarcasm)
Yeah, he doesn't exactly advance my point of view. But lets face it, Mark Shuttleworth is not vitriolic in his criticism. Instead he advances an argument with corrective measures that could be taken to stop the rot, and in particular, with this countries best at heart.
Not sure I've heard this before. I bow to your knowledge of the man.
The dismissal comes from the very people you expect no less from. So what? Take it from whence it comes, keep saying it and being proactive in changing our lot.
I repeat - it is generally those same people who btch about being told to leave that are considering leaving anyway. I say stop threatening us, go. And the very best to you and yours.
At this point I must add that not everybody who disagrees with your or anybody elses' point of view is an "ANC patriotic fool.".
I do not support this Government.
I agree. Nowhere have I said everything will run smoothly in 2010. But I would like to see it take place in South Africa. Why? Because tourists will see the incredible beauty of our country and appreciate the diversity of cultures we live in, how we are trying to make a differance in Africa and the world and that we don't blindly accept and do as we are told. We are capable of thinking for ourselves and being voices for postive change.
I disagree and direct you to my previous paragraph.
Jonty, it is clear to me that your methods of influencing change and mine differ, but I do believe we both wish for the same thing. If you and yours continue and me and mine do the same, we must one day be victorious.
Damn man, I have my own problems. I have a domestic worker who is so support of our Mr Zuma and she won't listen to reason. My reason.
Staging the event in SA is not going to do that I'm afraid, and the reason is simple. Most people seem to have this notion that the event is going to generate billions in revenues for SA. Please bare with me while I go through this as carefully as possible. Popular consensus is that between 300000 and 600000 people will come to South Africa for the FWC2010. Cool. Let's work on a million people coming to South Africa.
Quickly looking at the costs (and I'm going to stress that this is all based on estimations according the various articles and reports I've been reading), the following comes to light:
5 New Stadiums are to be built. Cape Town's stadium is expected to cost 3.3 Billion Rand. If each of the other stadiums cost 1 Billion, then that brings the total expenditure to 7.3 Billion Rand for the building of new stadiums. The upgrading of the existing stadiums has been pegged at between 0.5 Billion and 2 Billion, depending on what report you actually believe. But let's give the gvt the benefit of the doubt and work on the minimum for this exercise. That brings our running total to 7.8 Billion Rand. Gautrain is expected to cost 23 Billion Rand for the linking of JHB International (soon to be ORT International) to Pretoria - a move that is going to be done particularly for the influx of JIA/ORTIA and FWC2010 tourists. Expenditure now = 29.8 Billion Rand. The JIA/ORTIA, CTIA, DBN IA and Nelspruit Airports are all getting upgrades to the collective tune of about 3 Billion Rand. Our running total now = 32.8 Billion Rand. Add to that the 6 Billion the Taxi Recap program is expected to cost the tax payer. The national roads agency expects to part with 2.5 Billion to ensure the roads are up to par for the event. Our total now: 41.3 Billion. Event and Venue security will be beefed up at a cost of anywhere from 250 million, and special circuit courts to deal with FWC2010 specific incidents will be put in place at an estimated cost of around 300 Million. That makes it 41.85 Billion. Our current health system will be insufficient for an influx of so many new people, so that will need to be upgraded further. I will disregard the cost though because this is a clear benefit to our general population. The private sector will also be spending on upgrading their own infrastructures, including hotels, hospitality, etc.
So, a conservative and probably gross underestimation of the total tax payer money to be spent on a 2 month long event is roughly 41.8 Billion Rand. So, that means this event is costing the tax payer in the region of 42 thousand rand per visitor coming to South Africa (assuming 1 million people coming here for the event). Somehow I doubt that each of those tourists would be spending anything near that amount of money in the country. On the other hand, 42 000 rand given to a single destitute and homeless family could probably sustain such a family for more than 2 months....
Edit: notwithstanding: I have not even considered the costs of Telecoms and Broadcasting upgrades in my calculations....
Last edited:
I won't dispute your figures. You have not taken into account the benefits to be derived from the event and translated that into rands and cents.
Job creation.
Assetts left after the event.
Good will created. Future investment.
Education. Teaching people to run their own businesses eg.
infrastructure
Telecoms improvment.
airport upgrades will pay for themselves eventually. (Do you think you park and fly for free from our airports)
The mistake in these instances is always to calculate the direct costs without calculating the benefits and traslating them into rands and cents.
If you want to do this exersize then do it completely. Consider both sides of the balance sheet.
I don't know that we'll recover all costs in this manner, but I hazard, niether do you.
I am not an expert in WC2010.
I retain a positive outlook for the event and hope it gives us as much as possible. Do you?
Job creation.
Assetts left after the event.
Good will created. Future investment.
Education. Teaching people to run their own businesses eg.
infrastructure
Telecoms improvment.
airport upgrades will pay for themselves eventually. (Do you think you park and fly for free from our airports)
The mistake in these instances is always to calculate the direct costs without calculating the benefits and traslating them into rands and cents.
If you want to do this exersize then do it completely. Consider both sides of the balance sheet.
I don't know that we'll recover all costs in this manner, but I hazard, niether do you.
I am not an expert in WC2010.
I retain a positive outlook for the event and hope it gives us as much as possible. Do you?