WoTLK Pala Tanking

[Timken]

Has anyone seen the talent trees for the palas? Tanking gear is gonna be nearly impossible to get, and where as we were the masters of tanking everything, warriors are gonna pull the top spot so far out we will never catch up...

The new talents require for consecration etc to use attack power and holy damage. Will be tough getting strength and spell damage up, as both are separate class and gear attributes.

Anyone else a bit worried about this?

 

[Pitbull]

But lets be honest.

Pala's are healers They are the best Multi Mob tanks I have ever seen, but there is no such tanking required at end game. I think the whole scene should stay the same going into WoTLK. Warriors will always be the best tanks for boss fights, so it's clear by what you are saying that end game in WoTLK will keep to the same kind of play style they have in TBC, Warrior (Tank) Pala (Healer)

 

[werries2]

But lets be honest.

Pala's are healers They are the best Multi Mob tanks I have ever seen, but there is no such tanking required at end game. I think the whole scene should stay the same going into WoTLK. Warriors will always be the best tanks for boss fights, so it's clear by what you are saying that end game in WoTLK will keep to the same kind of play style they have in TBC, Warrior (Tank) Pala (Healer)

Not quite true Pitbull. Engame require alot of multimob tanking. They nerved warriors to hell with multimob tanking and the paladin tanks started to come to the front this expansion. (Battle shout used to generate threat!)
The next expansion they realized that warriors have been dropped from raids due to their lack of aoe tanking etc, and they really need to put it back.
Paladin, warrior, druid and possibly death night tanking will have to be tested out still to see who will be the new tanking kings. I hope warriors will get their nr1 spot back again

 

[Cloud]

But lets be honest.

Pala's are healers They are the best Multi Mob tanks I have ever seen, but there is no such tanking required at end game. I think the whole scene should stay the same going into WoTLK. Warriors will always be the best tanks for boss fights, so it's clear by what you are saying that end game in WoTLK will keep to the same kind of play style they have in TBC, Warrior (Tank) Pala (Healer)

Latest news from Blizzard is that they want "30 viable raid specs" as opposed to 25. They even went as far as to explicitly state that you can do WOTLK end game raids with bear tanks (under the druid section) skipping warriors altogether

In the same breath, they want warriors to continue tanking, but make warrior tanking more fun and also able to grind. Shockwave anyone?

 

[TheShogun]

I'm gonna comment on several of the comments made by people without referencing them because I'm feeling lazy.

1. Plate Tanking gear in Wrath is going to have a lot more Hit and Str on it so being able to get Spellpower from AP will not be hard or limit gear choices but is intended so Pally tanks don't have to scrounge as much +Spell Plate and thereby struggle with Mitigation.

2. Dropping Warrior tanks from raids?! Lol. Warrior Tanks are still awesome and they'll carry on being awesome in Wrath. They've got the best mitigation on the game and a number of unique abilities that make them indispensible in Raids.

3. Warrior tanks biggest problem is Threat and Blizz have made it very clear in the talents released and in their own comments that they realise this and intend fixing it. Be prepared to see Warriors tanking the **** out of mobs in Wrath. No more 250-300 DPS Prot Gayness.

4. BC Raiding was a huge leap in multiple spec viability for Raids and Blizz looks to be improving on this considerably in Wrath. So all those classes that look so good on paper but suck hard won't anymore.

5. So what if Warriors's don't multimob tank like a Pally? Each class needs to have strengths and weaknesses in order for the game to be balanced.

Trust in Blizzard. They deliver.

 

[d3th_n1gG4]

Wait a pally retribution spec is going to be viable

 

[RoosTa]

They are the best Multi Mob tanks I have ever seen, but there is no such tanking required at end game.

What about MH? What about fast hitting bosses? I'm a tankadin and we have 2 tankadins in a raid usually. Tankadins can tank almost any boss, with exception to those that silence and drain mana. They aren't just there to multi-mob tank.

Warriors do have better oh-%^*$ abilities and 4% better mitigation, but tankadins are good enough to tank almost anything.

Our only issue atm is mana and difficult itemisation. (chain mana potting ftw)

 

[dakeyras]

Wait a pally retribution spec is going to be viable

They are viable. Some classes is not included for their dps as much as their utility. Specs like enhance/elemental shaman, Boomkin and of course Ret Pala.

 

[freeek]

I never checked the tree yet but I remember our t6 pala tank saying its going to imba for pala tanks.... so that meant the tree was positive... I'm thinking you missing something, I'm pretty sure they made it better for pala tanks!....

 

[RoosTa]

A good change is that, stamina will determine our threat. Stamina = Spell damage We are also getting talents that reduce our cost to typical tanking spells and getting an extra spell that boosts our TPS.

I'm rather interested to see what will happen to mana regen, since chain potting will be out of the question.

Also the seal/judgement changes looks like it will be more fun to play the pala.

The Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with melee weapon.
All 3 Judgement spells are greyed out and unable to be cast.
The Paladin cast Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.
Seal of Vengeance/Corruption buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light/Wisdom/Justice) are now available to be cast.
STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF is placed on the mob next swing doing holy damage over time.
The Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
1) Seal of Vengeance/Corruption stays active on the Paladin.
2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob IN ADDITION TO THE STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF.
3) Mob takes Holy damage from Judgement spell, which is INCREASED by the Seal having an "on Judgement" damage modifier.

End result: The mob now has Seal of Vengeance/Corruption's stacking Holy DoT AND Judgement of Wisdom's mana-regen-on-attack Debuff. (This is NOT a bug as the Seals and Judgements are now separate spells and have their own Debuffs.)

 

[Pleochism]

Exhibit A: Touched By The Light talent. 40-point Protection. There is nothing to be concerned about with regards to spell damage. If it turns out that it's too low, they simply increase the talent's number. Problem solved.

I look forward to all tanks being more viable for raids. But warriors will remain top.
I also look forward to Holy paladins destroying all other healers

 

[Timken]

Consecrates the land beneath the Paladin, doing [ 32% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 904 ] Holy damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area.
1475 Mana, Instant cast, 8 sec cooldown

Causes [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power + 1028 ] Holy damage to an Undead or Demon target.
530 Mana, 30 yd range, Instant cast, 15 sec cooldown

Hurls a hammer that strikes an enemy for [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power + 1139 ] Holy damage. Only usable on enemies that have 35% or less health.
615 Mana, 30 yd range, 0.5 sec cast, 6 sec cooldown

Hurls a holy shield at the enemy, dealing [ 7% of AP + 7% of Spell Power + 705 ] Holy damage, Dazing them and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets. Lasts 10 sec.
1745 Mana, 30 yd range, 0.5 sec cast, 30 sec cooldown

Some of the level 80 talents that got me a bit worried. Palas no longer stuff spell damage plate on, now they also have to worry about strength for attack power.

And no palas arent the greatest instance healers, maybe they do ok in a raid where they only spam flash on 1 target, but group healing is a big no.

 

[Oculate]

Wrath of the Hybrid King is out soon!

Hybrids are getting so much love compared to the pure classes

 

[d3th_n1gG4]

I also look forward to Holy paladins destroying all other healers

And I look forward to punching someone in the nuts when that happens

 

[TheShogun]

They are viable. Some classes is not included for their dps as much as their utility. Specs like enhance/elemental shaman, Boomkin and of course Ret Pala.

Currently, Elemental and Enhance Shammies are viable not only because of insane buffs but they do some awesome DPS.

Boomkin can also do good DPS but it requires hectic group tuning to achieve and as a result they're seldom found in SWP guilds.

Ret is currently not viable pre-SWP for several reasons. Despite the 3% Raid Crit and 2% Group Damage their personal DPS is so much less then another DPS class in the same group (even if u put them in a melee group for WF which is essential to them) and the itemisation to support respectable DPS is so incredibly hard to get pre-SWP.
They're good in SWP because the itemisation is considerably better and almost all the mobs are Demons, allowing them to use a number of otherwise useless abilities.

 

[Timken]

So far, I have found a good use for all classes and specs, bar Retrinoob.

My mate has a boomkin, eases into 1200dps bracket, no matter the group.

His mate has a healer shammy, out heals the best druid healers on raw heal with chain heal. Lol, in Shattered Halls, I aoe tank 7-8 mobs at a time on heroic on my pala and he keeps me up.

But agree on retribution spec, still have to find a retri pala that can dps over 700dps

 

[Cloud]

I'm gonna comment on several of the comments made by people without referencing them because I'm feeling lazy.

1. Plate Tanking gear in Wrath is going to have a lot more Hit and Str on it so being able to get Spellpower from AP will not be hard or limit gear choices but is intended so Pally tanks don't have to scrounge as much +Spell Plate and thereby struggle with Mitigation.

2. Dropping Warrior tanks from raids?! Lol. Warrior Tanks are still awesome and they'll carry on being awesome in Wrath. They've got the best mitigation on the game and a number of unique abilities that make them indispensible in Raids.

3. Warrior tanks biggest problem is Threat and Blizz have made it very clear in the talents released and in their own comments that they realise this and intend fixing it. Be prepared to see Warriors tanking the **** out of mobs in Wrath. No more 250-300 DPS Prot Gayness.

4. BC Raiding was a huge leap in multiple spec viability for Raids and Blizz looks to be improving on this considerably in Wrath. So all those classes that look so good on paper but suck hard won't anymore.

5. So what if Warriors's don't multimob tank like a Pally? Each class needs to have strengths and weaknesses in order for the game to be balanced.

Trust in Blizzard. They deliver.

In Blizzard's own words:

"We are adding a new class to Lich King, as well as improving the raid viability of specs such as Arcane mage, Survival hunter and Balance druid. That means you have 30 available specs for 25 slots. There are two ways to design around this problem. One is that there are 25 mandatory specs and 5 that shouldn't be raiding. Boo. A more fun, interesting and ultimately fair direction is that you actually have some choices in who to bring. Imagine running a raid with no warrior tanks at all."

And:

"The fact remains that we want warriors to keep tanking. If they aren't there yet, we'll get them there."

Warriors will be able to main tank, but so will druids. Just to clear up some things, I have a warrior main, I don't have a druid. I'm just making some observations over here

 

[TheShogun]

In Blizzard's own words:

"We are adding a new class to Lich King, as well as improving the raid viability of specs such as Arcane mage, Survival hunter and Balance druid. That means you have 30 available specs for 25 slots. There are two ways to design around this problem. One is that there are 25 mandatory specs and 5 that shouldn't be raiding. Boo. A more fun, interesting and ultimately fair direction is that you actually have some choices in who to bring. Imagine running a raid with no warrior tanks at all."

And:

"The fact remains that we want warriors to keep tanking. If they aren't there yet, we'll get them there."

Warriors will be able to main tank, but so will druids. Just to clear up some things, I have a warrior main, I don't have a druid. I'm just making some observations over here

You misunderstood me. My comment on dropping Warrior Tanks from Raids was directed at BC content.

As for Wrath, time will tell but I don't see Warriors, Prot Pallies and Feral Druids ever being in a situation where one of those tanking specs is left out of a 25man Raid.
They're all viable but I think it's quite likely that all 3 will be required.

 

[werries2]

You misunderstood me. My comment on dropping Warrior Tanks from Raids was directed at BC content.

As for Wrath, time will tell but I don't see Warriors, Prot Pallies and Feral Druids ever being in a situation where one of those tanking specs is left out of a 25man Raid.
They're all viable but I think it's quite likely that all 3 will be required.

Warrior tanks are being dropped in raids for AOE tanks. Pre- BC warriors were the only viable raid tanks, since then most of these warriors have started playing other chars or gone dps. A warrior is now getting to the "optional" stage in a raids since druids and paladins are equal good single target tanks. In the roll of offtanks, I cant think of many warrior offtanks...
While paladin tanks have a specific roll and are the kings of AOE tanking warriors have pulled the short straw in BC.
Last thought: A paladin or druid can take over the tanking job of a warrior, but can you use a warrior to take over from a Paladin/ Druid? (MH trash is a good example)

 

[TheShogun]

I have yet to see a Druid or Pally MT over a Warrior except on fights that specifically require it.
Most guilds still run Warrior MT's.