Would you kill baby Hitler?

HennieWelkom

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2018
Messages
658
No, I believe people have the right to live, I'm pro-life, I'm anti-death penalty and I'm for people having long happy lives. There are lots of people who I think have done bad things, but I'm not God, I don't get to choose who lives and who dies.
 

theratman

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
8,703
Don't underestimate the Germans it's a miracle they didn't become the dominant super power, remember the Soviet and American space program we're headed by former Nazi scientists. Imagine if Germany wasn't taken over by an anti-semetic regime, you'd have Albert Einstein and various other Jewish scientists helping the German cause
Yes but they had severe limits imposed on them by the Versailles treaty. So while they did limit force size etc I still think they'd be no match for Russia.

The only time Germany beats them is if they invade in the mid 30s after the Soviet purge and hope they collapse.

War with the soviets was inevitable, and while the Germans were the most technologically advanced nation they lacked the man power and size of Russia.

Great discussion though, there are lots of great alternative history YT channels that have covered it in some detail.
 

rambo919

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
3,714
They could have at least gotten to a stalemate without american intervention, they were better fighters that the european allies even though they blundered so much.
 

The Trutherizer

Expert Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
2,471
If you go back to kill baby Hitler then he would never do the stuff he did and then you would never have a reason to go back and do it.

So paradox. Same for anything one might WANT to change. You literally have to change history willy nilly with no reason at all for there to be a chance that it will not lead to a paradox - Which will still be small since there is so many factors which come into play with random human activity. Make a little change. Now you end up only having the time machine ready to go 5 minutes later, which might cause you to change something different, or at a different time.

Best just to learn from history.
 

DMNknight

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Messages
3,194
If I kill Hitler, my Grandad doesn't become a German officer, doesn't shoot himself at the end of the war, my aunt doesn't get my dad out of East Germany on the second last train that left and my grandmother would not have moved to South Africa.
My dad doesn't meet my mom. I wouldn't exist to kill Hitler.

Answering the question based on the hypothesis it were possible, I would say no. I firmly believe that the only time it would be conscionable to kill him, was when he killed or gave the approval to kill, his first victim of WW2
Once you've violated the rights of another human being to live, yours should be forfeit too.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
15,487
Yes but they had severe limits imposed on them by the Versailles treaty. So while they did limit force size etc I still think they'd be no match for Russia.

The only time Germany beats them is if they invade in the mid 30s after the Soviet purge and hope they collapse.

War with the soviets was inevitable, and while the Germans were the most technologically advanced nation they lacked the man power and size of Russia.

Great discussion though, there are lots of great alternative history YT channels that have covered it in some detail.
Technically Germany was the most technically advanced vs all the allies in the beginning, so was Italy. Look at Italy ;-) they actually had some decent fighter aircraft, guns and other stuff but they just couldn't win anything. What gave Germany the edge was the blitzkrieg which was a modification of an earlier tactic from WW1 when the tanks started to come into force.
Even during WW1 the Germans were technically advanced in some things and the Allies in others, the Germans had better planes for a loooong time, while the Allies managed to field tanks first. The Germans never truly fielded their own tanks with the A7Vs being large landships, whereas the French actually had one of the true modern tank designs with the little Renus FTs.
 

Sinbad

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
65,686
I would not, because think of all the chaos it would create on forums everywhere with references to Godwin's Law that are suddenly meaningless.
 

gamer16

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
9,668
No, I believe people have the right to live, I'm pro-life, I'm anti-death penalty and I'm for people having long happy lives. There are lots of people who I think have done bad things, but I'm not God, I don't get to choose who lives and who dies.
You do get too choose who lives and who dies, if you want too.
 

MrsWestcot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
137


This baby grows up to be responsible for the deaths of Around 6 million Jews; using broadest definition, 17 million victims overall.

The question is would you kill baby Hitler to save the lives of millions of people?
I don't think it would help. He was not solely responsible for the holocaust. You would need to kill him and all the other people involved to really prevent it. But I have this feeling that some other atrocity would just have occurred in its place. The world is full of bad people, preventing one could change history in such away that it might give rise to several others. We just don't know what's really on the road not traveled.

Also, the cause for the second world war was mostly nationalism. Germany was humiliated after the first world war which put certain things in motion. I honestly think there would have just been another charamatic leader to take his place.

Which actually brings me to the question. If you could prevent the assassination of the Arch Duke Ferdinand, would you? How would that change history?
 

MrsWestcot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
137
So to further muddy the waters = (and to steal an idea from Dan Carlin https://www.dancarlin.com/). Would you kill this person, Gavrilo Princip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip, on the morning of the Archduke's assassination, knowing that the original attempt was botched and that it was only a huge coincedence that he had the opportunity to kill the Archduke.

You could make an argument that all the deaths in the Fist World War, and those in the Second stemmed from that one act. Of course it's possible that war could have been touched off in other ways but it's interesting to consider how one person can set things in motion.
The assassination of the Arch Duke was the spark that ignited WW1, however war was imminent, everyone was just looking for a reason to start it and that assassination was just the ticket. Preventing the assassination would just have delayed the onset of the war in my opinion.
 

Cray

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
19,544
The assassination of the Arch Duke was the spark that ignited WW1, however war was imminent, everyone was just looking for a reason to start it and that assassination was just the ticket. Preventing the assassination would just have delayed the onset of the war in my opinion.
Quite possibly, also one of the biggest contributions to war was that the Kaizer had sacked Bismarck (who was a stellar diplomat). Quite a few people think that if Bismarck had still been around he could have worked things out differently so that was might have been avoided.
 

MightyQuin

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
13,491


This baby grows up to be responsible for the deaths of Around 6 million Jews; using broadest definition, 17 million victims overall.

The question is would you kill baby Hitler to save the lives of millions of people?
Why not Stalin or Mao Zedong....they killed far more people than Hitler.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
15,487
Why not Stalin or Mao Zedong....they killed far more people than Hitler.
Cause Hitler is the big bad, I had to explain to my wife that in the grand scale of dictators Hitler is up there but he's not the grand pooba of evil.
 

Polymathic

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
13,450
Why not Stalin or Mao Zedong....they killed far more people than Hitler.
You have pics of baby Mao and baby Stalin?

I don't think the Americans would like the idea of killing Baby Mao. If the Communist revolution failed the Government of Taiwan would of been in charge of China. China would be a Super Power, a proper one not like it's now
 

MEIOT

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
1,720
There were way worse genocides in history that makes the holocaust look tame.

There were way worse historical figures attributed to genocidal acts that makes Hitler look extremely trivial in comparison.

Let's be realistic for a second though, think of all the world issues right now, majority of them directly related to the sheer number of our species. Were it not for historical wars, imagine the population density we would be faced with now.

I know it sounds harsh, but the truth usually is.
 
Top