Would you take Ivermectin for Covid?

Would you take Ivermectin for Covid?

  • Yes - I have

    Votes: 15 4.5%
  • Yes - I would

    Votes: 99 29.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 61 18.3%
  • No

    Votes: 150 44.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 2.7%

  • Total voters
    334

etienne_marais

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
9,483
The issue with Ivermectin is that dosages have been calculated for animals, mostly sheep and cattle. Because there have been so few successful human trails, there is no recommended human dosage. Whomever takes it will probably kill themselves when they take the dosage meant for a cow or for a sheep for that matter. If you take too little it won't work. Whomever is dosing themselves with the stuff is doing a backyard (unscientific and untested) dosage calculation.
No, only the dosages meant for animals were calculated for animals and people should not try to use Ivermectin containing medicines intended for animal usage.

There is a variety of products containing Ivermectin intended for human consumption and Ivermectin is considered very safe in itself.
 

rustypup

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
2,491
Ivermectin is considered very safe in itself.
Not at 60 times the maximum recommended dose.

It's an HDA that farks with intracellular function. Much like chemo, yes - it has an impact but at doses like that you're hoping to kill a virus that has a <1% fatality before you kill the patient.
 

Affieplaas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
171
No, only the dosages meant for animals were calculated for animals and people should not try to use Ivermectin containing medicines intended for animal usage.

There is a variety of products containing Ivermectin intended for human consumption and Ivermectin is considered very safe in itself.

Well the stuff that is available in SA at vets are meant for animals. That is what the people are taking.

I'm not a docter or a pharmacist but I do understand that Ivermectin is available in human medicine, but from what I can gather the human version of it with human dosage sizes is not commonly available in SA as we do not have all the strange parasites and viruses here in SA that it is typically used for.
 

etienne_marais

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
9,483
Not at 60 times the maximum recommended dose.

It's an HDA that farks with intracellular function. Much like chemo, yes - it has an impact but at doses like that you're hoping to kill a virus that has a <1% fatality before you kill the patient.
Sure, but how is that different to so many other medications ? Nobody is advocating 60 times recommended doses.
 

etienne_marais

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
9,483
Well the stuff that is available in SA at vets are meant for animals. That is what the people are taking.

I'm not a docter or a pharmacist but I do understand that Ivermectin is available in human medicine, but from what I can gather the human version of it with human dosage sizes is not commonly available in SA as we do not have all the strange parasites and viruses here in SA that it is typically used for.
True. Ivermectin (for humans) was originally approved in South Africa but was never marketed at scale here due to limited use and limited financial viability in this market.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,202
I am not clever enough to even pretend to understand all of this but from what I gather Ivermectin prevents parasites from taking hold in an animal's intestines, so it is a preventative measure. The same thing applies to Covid in the human body i.e. it prevents Covid from binding to your guts. The virus must be able to "grab hold" and stay inside you for it to infect you.

The issue with Ivermectin is that dosages have been calculated for animals, mostly sheep and cattle. Because there have been so few successful human trails, there is no recommended human dosage. Whomever takes it will probably kill themselves when they take the dosage meant for a cow or for a sheep for that matter. If you take too little it won't work. Whomever is dosing themselves with the stuff is doing a backyard (unscientific and untested) dosage calculation.

We already now that obese individuals are more susceptible to contracting Covid. When I asked my wife, she explained that fat cells act as an anchor for Covid. So the more you have of it, the higher are the chances that when you are exposed to it, it will stay in your body and you will get sick. I found this interesting. More reason to loose the boep I guess.

Careful, you're applying strict logic here. You're going to incur the wrath of the Google couch docs who have done a lot of reading around this.
 

etienne_marais

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
9,483
Careful, you're applying strict logic here. You're going to incur the wrath of the Google couch docs who have done a lot of reading around this.
Not really. We can debate as rational and fair minded adults, bringing into equation respectable doctors calling for further investigation into Ivermectin.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,202
Not really. We can debate as rational and fair minded adults, bringing into equation respectable doctors calling for further investigation into Ivermectin.
We could. You and I could. Others cannot. And they view what is said as heresy to go against their thoughts. You can state, till you're blue in the face, you're not against the drug being used as long as it's tested and passed, and it gets turned against you.
It's using facts against emotions...only 1 wins. It's not the former. Can't debate a Googler.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,695
I am not clever enough to even pretend to understand all of this but from what I gather Ivermectin prevents parasites from taking hold in an animal's intestines, so it is a preventative measure. The same thing applies to Covid in the human body i.e. it prevents Covid from binding to your guts. The virus must be able to "grab hold" and stay inside you for it to infect you.

The issue with Ivermectin is that dosages have been calculated for animals, mostly sheep and cattle. Because there have been so few successful human trails, there is no recommended human dosage. Whomever takes it will probably kill themselves when they take the dosage meant for a cow or for a sheep for that matter. If you take too little it won't work. Whomever is dosing themselves with the stuff is doing a backyard (unscientific and untested) dosage calculation.

We already now that obese individuals are more susceptible to contracting Covid. When I asked my wife, she explained that fat cells act as an anchor for Covid. So the more you have of it, the higher are the chances that when you are exposed to it, it will stay in your body and you will get sick. I found this interesting. More reason to loose the boep I guess.

The ones who know what they are doing are adjusting the dosage by weight and by what the recommended dosage per kg for humans is. This is the way farm dwellers have been using Ivermectin for years when they can't get the product formulated for human consumption as a preventative measure against parasites mostly once a year.
What the uninformed are doing is anyone's guess.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,695
Well the stuff that is available in SA at vets are meant for animals. That is what the people are taking.

I'm not a docter or a pharmacist but I do understand that Ivermectin is available in human medicine, but from what I can gather the human version of it with human dosage sizes is not commonly available in SA as we do not have all the strange parasites and viruses here in SA that it is typically used for.
We do have them. It is not as if the Zim border stops these parasites. It is just that control is better and presumably there are drugs used?
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,695
Not really. We can debate as rational and fair minded adults, bringing into equation respectable doctors calling for further investigation into Ivermectin.
I presume our local idiot is making some or other derogatory remark.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,202
@etienne_marais but as can be seen with the shameless comment above, that was 1 of the guys who couldn't see a differing viewpoint.
Apparently I am an idiot as I never consulted his Google searches and happened to highlight some of the processes that regulatory authorities need to go through.
 

Affieplaas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
171
Careful, you're applying strict logic here. You're going to incur the wrath of the Google couch docs who have done a lot of reading around this.
LoL. I see this thread has turned into a heated debate.

I have zero interest in medicine. My wife is a hospital pharmacist. Her life has now been taken over by Covid and she refuses to talk about it at home. Between my lack of interest and her unwillingness to bring her work home, I have learned the following:

- People are dying every day in the hospital where she works from Covid. This includes young people in their 20's and 30's as well as older people. At a stage someone commented that funeral homes cannot keep up and are contemplating digging a trench for the bodies.
- The hospital where my wife is based was chock and block in Dec with people dying in the passages, now they are at about 50% occupancy. The lock down therefore works (but one must remember the exposure level in Dec was abnormally high due to Christmas parties, holidays etc)
- She is in a private hospital and several of her colleagues have contracted Covid even with extreme preventative measures. You just let your guard down for a second and scratch the corner of your eye with your virus infested finger and you become part of the statistics.
- My wife's sister lives in Canada. Canada has secured 4 vaccines per Canadian citizen. They have apparently promised that once everyone in Canada has been vaccinated they will donate the remaining vaccines to the third world countries. We therefore simply need to wait a bit. Trudeau will save us.

My conclusion to all of this, ..... the liquor ban should become permanent :whistling:
 

buffalobill

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2004
Messages
812
Does this question imply that we’re illegally (or at least under false pretenses) obtaining it? How do we get it if it’s not approved for human use?
You do what the doctors are doing, phoning clients they know who are farmers to see if they can get some. It happened to my brother in law. Trouble is, there's no stock. It's all sold out.
 

hellfire

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,105
LoL. I see this thread has turned into a heated debate.

I have zero interest in medicine. My wife is a hospital pharmacist. Her life has now been taken over by Covid and she refuses to talk about it at home. Between my lack of interest and her unwillingness to bring her work home, I have learned the following:

- People are dying every day in the hospital where she works from Covid. This includes young people in their 20's and 30's as well as older people. At a stage someone commented that funeral homes cannot keep up and are contemplating digging a trench for the bodies.
- The hospital where my wife is based was chock and block in Dec with people dying in the passages, now they are at about 50% occupancy. The lock down therefore works (but one must remember the exposure level in Dec was abnormally high due to Christmas parties, holidays etc)
- She is in a private hospital and several of her colleagues have contracted Covid even with extreme preventative measures. You just let your guard down for a second and scratch the corner of your eye with your virus infested finger and you become part of the statistics.
- My wife's sister lives in Canada. Canada has secured 4 vaccines per Canadian citizen. They have apparently promised that once everyone in Canada has been vaccinated they will donate the remaining vaccines to the third world countries. We therefore simply need to wait a bit. Trudeau will save us.

My conclusion to all of this, ..... the liquor ban should become permanent :whistling:
We aren't considered a 3rd world country compared to some of our northern neighbors.
They will get the donations, not us.
 

buffalobill

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2004
Messages
812
No proof of it working, there were some suspect papers on it with data that did not hold up to scrutiny and were retracted.
I see there is one very small double blind study of 28 patients which showed "promising" results, but the researchers quite plainly said it was not sufficient or representative.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,695
You do what the doctors are doing, phoning clients they know who are farmers to see if they can get some. It happened to my brother in law. Trouble is, there's no stock. It's all sold out.
Most of the animal compounds are perfectly safe for human consumption, so I am not at all surprised to hear this. All that is required then is to adjust the dosages accordingly.
And most if not all doctors are licensed to compound medication or have a chemist, pharmacist, nurse they know who is licensed. Even the local Vet most probably has the required licence and knowledge.
Hence why all the noise about over dose risks is really not NEC, just applies to people who recklessly try self medication.
 

Affieplaas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
171
We aren't considered a 3rd world country compared to some of our northern neighbors.
They will get the donations, not us.
I am sure they will factor in infection rates.
We have one of the highest so we should hopefully take precedence.

Whether the vaccine is totally safe is of course a completely different debate.
 
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